Avicus Archive

[Debate #1] Is Animal Testing Justified? by Hacktivism February 26, 2015 at 9:02 AM UTC

I might do one of these debates every once in a while, depending on how this works out. They'll all be on more serious issues that the world should know about. Please do not flame on other people's posts.

I've always had an interest in biology and medicine, and one of the most controversial topics in the medical field is whether animals should be used to lab testing. So today's question is:

Is animal testing justified and necessary?

I'll give my own opinion at a later time, since I'm supposed to be sleeping and can't write a quality paragraph in a few minutes.

The_Detonator_ February 26, 2015 at 9:02 AM UTC

For non cosmetic purposes, yes.

Howsie February 26, 2015 at 10:02 AM UTC

For medicinal and scientific purposes only. While I'm pretty against the idea in the first place, if it saves innocent lives then yes it is justifiable.

JJTheGuy February 26, 2015 at 6:02 PM UTC

http://avicus.net/forums/7c2aea2f1

There is already a topic on this, sorry. :P

Notalgicular February 26, 2015 at 7:02 PM UTC

http://avicus.net/forums/7c2aea2f1

There is already a topic on this, sorry. :P
Thats nothing to do with the topic of this debate and it hasn't been updated for a while - this thread is fine

hasl February 26, 2015 at 7:02 PM UTC

Seeing animals tested on really pains me. It's like testing new drugs on other humans, see if they die or not.
Would you sacrifice your last breath to save the entire human race if a decease broke out? I sure would.
Humans are animals, we are just more, developed. Shall we say? Imagine testing on a really dyslexic kid. That's what we're doing when we experiment on animals, such as apes.
I am always against it, but I can see the justice if it's for medical reasons, to save innocent lives.

To save humanity, to save life.

These areas of discussion can strongly upset others, though.

HotAndCrunch February 26, 2015 at 9:02 PM UTC

we did that in school like a month ago - yes

Robin_DD_J February 26, 2015 at 9:02 PM UTC

Seeing animals tested on really pains me. It's like testing new drugs on other humans, see if they die or not.
Would you sacrifice your last breath to save the entire human race if a decease broke out? I sure would.
Humans are animals, we are just more, developed. Shall we say? Imagine testing on a really dyslexic kid. That's what we're doing when we experiment on animals, such as apes.
I am always against it, but I can see the justice if it's for medical reasons, to save innocent lives.

To save humanity, to save life.

These areas of discussion can strongly upset others, though.
You can't really say "are".
There is a lot of opinions of how people was created, but no proof. We have to belive what we think is the right. If you "think" that is how Humans were made I respect that, but there should never be a fact for nothing we cant prove.

And yes I read the whole post ^-^ Would just like to chare these words of mine.

SWEET_Johny February 26, 2015 at 9:02 PM UTC

Yes, as Howsie said, for medical and scientific purposes only. I don't think it's necessary when you're testing a harmful sunscreen on a dog. I also don't mind the testing when it's done on 'infected' animals.

Glitchaye February 26, 2015 at 10:02 PM UTC

Ye I guess.

MLGtino February 26, 2015 at 10:02 PM UTC

If the animal isn't severely hurt or killed, then yes. HOWEVER, if the animal is changed and then released back into the wild, then no. For example, changing an animals DNA and then having it reproduce might result in a change in the species, including potential risk for the offspring to have a genetic disease or illness that might end up wiping out the species if that child then carries it out, allowing the disease to spread until it reaches a point where things like cancer and death become more common. I cannot stress this enough. Don't put your test subjects back into the world. I hate field testing for lots of things (like cosmetic products, antibiotics, etc) due to the risk of injuring other people and animals. 

All in all, if you've pretty much fucked up the animals entire way of life, you'd might as well kill it when you're done.

_Jupiter February 27, 2015 at 12:02 AM UTC

There's a difference between animal testing and animal torture. Some companies cross it.

EchoB February 27, 2015 at 12:02 AM UTC

"Saving innocent lives", What about the innocent animals?

MidnightBeats February 27, 2015 at 2:02 AM UTC

"Saving innocent lives", What about the innocent animals?
Testing animals for unknown diseases instead of letting them die for the same cause saves more lives than not.

Mooch24 February 27, 2015 at 2:02 AM UTC

"Saving innocent lives", What about the innocent animals?
food chain baby

TheOpAmerican February 27, 2015 at 2:02 AM UTC

I think it has to be done. Honestly, this is the sick truth, but twenty rats are nowhere near the equivalent value of a human life. However, I do agree with the fact that if an experiment does go wrong that the "failed experiment" should not be let back out into the world.

The_Detonator_ February 27, 2015 at 8:02 AM UTC

If the animal isn't severely hurt or killed, then yes. HOWEVER, if the animal is changed and then released back into the wild, then no. For example, changing an animals DNA and then having it reproduce might result in a change in the species, including potential risk for the offspring to have a genetic disease or illness that might end up wiping out the species if that child then carries it out, allowing the disease to spread until it reaches a point where things like cancer and death become more common. I cannot stress this enough. Don't put your test subjects back into the world. I hate field testing for lots of things (like cosmetic products, antibiotics, etc) due to the risk of injuring other people and animals. 

All in all, if you've pretty much fucked up the animals entire way of life, you'd might as well kill it when you're done.
You cannot change the DNA of an animal in a way that makes it's offspring have that DNA, doing so would likely kill the animal and cause cancer.

The_Detonator_ February 27, 2015 at 8:02 AM UTC

You can't really say "are".
There is a lot of opinions of how people was created, but no proof. We have to belive what we think is the right. If you "think" that is how Humans were made I respect that, but there should never be a fact for nothing we cant prove.

And yes I read the whole post ^-^ Would just like to chare these words of mine.
There is a difference between opinion and validated fact.

Humans are animals by every sane definition.

The_Detonator_ February 27, 2015 at 8:02 AM UTC

"Saving innocent lives", What about the innocent animals?
I'm willing to trade 20 chimps for several thousand humans. Maybe my opinion is radical, I don't know.

Howsie February 27, 2015 at 8:02 AM UTC

Ye I guess.
*claps heartily*

OPTOBAT February 27, 2015 at 8:02 AM UTC

No they shouldn't, we are NOT the animals being tested, no matter how much evidence we may or may not have, we do not know if what we are doing to what ever anima is hurting them..
We could be injecting something that gives them an excruciatingly painful disease or causing them to fall ill and drop dead.
That isn't fair.
Just because not all animals are as "intelligent" as us it doesnt mean they don't deserve to freely roam this earth like we do.
I say leave animals alone, apart from when we DEPEND on them to survive (such as getting food) and we decease them in a non painful way, as that is pretty much part of nature.
But grabbing an innocent, unsuspecting animals and jabbing needles and guzzling chemicals into it is inhumane and unfair.
My opinion.

TheOpAmerican February 27, 2015 at 9:02 AM UTC

It's a very sick and inhumane truth, however it is the truth and will remain the truth for time to come. Is it unfair? Yes. However, animals outside of the human race are not born with the potential humans are. This may sound cruel but once again, it is the cold, hard truth. A lab rats life is less valuable than a human beings. Also, money comes into play. It is much cheaper to pick up a batch of six rats then it would be six willing human beings. Everything goes back to money and personal gain, which is why making animal testing obsolete with what we have now is nowhere near a reasonable answer.

The_Detonator_ February 27, 2015 at 11:02 AM UTC

Woah guys and girls.. Generally you don't go around jabbing needles full of pain into animals, you'd analyse it in a lab to predict what it's effects would be. If something is a known carcinogen for example, you wouldn't bother using it on an animal, because you know it wouldn't work on humans.

Contrary to popular belief, scientists know about the chemicals they study.

MLGtino February 27, 2015 at 12:02 PM UTC

You cannot change the DNA of an animal in a way that makes it's offspring have that DNA, doing so would likely kill the animal and cause cancer.
There's a little thing called natural selection and I don't want it to turn into "artificial selection". If an entire species is going to go extinct because of our urge to be scientifically advanced passed the point that we are right now, then it bothers me. If it's our entire race vs another species entire race, they can go ahead and kill it off because I'd rather we all live than some less advanced species. I just don't want change that ruins an animal's way of life.

Sevoo February 27, 2015 at 1:02 PM UTC

Seeing animals tested on really pains me. It's like testing new drugs on other humans, see if they die or not.
Would you sacrifice your last breath to save the entire human race if a decease broke out? I sure would.
Humans are animals, we are just more, developed. Shall we say? Imagine testing on a really dyslexic kid. That's what we're doing when we experiment on animals, such as apes.
I am always against it, but I can see the justice if it's for medical reasons, to save innocent lives.

To save humanity, to save life.

These areas of discussion can strongly upset others, though.
Lol, did you ever read The Maze Runner series?

If you haven't, do because I think you will like it xD

Robin_DD_J February 27, 2015 at 2:02 PM UTC

There is a difference between opinion and validated fact.

Humans are animals by every sane definition.
That is excatly what I said. There is a diffrence between facts and opinions. But there is still no proof.

Stimulating February 27, 2015 at 3:02 PM UTC

Seeing animals tested on really pains me. It's like testing new drugs on other humans, see if they die or not.
Would you sacrifice your last breath to save the entire human race if a decease broke out? I sure would.
Humans are animals, we are just more, developed. Shall we say? Imagine testing on a really dyslexic kid. That's what we're doing when we experiment on animals, such as apes.
I am always against it, but I can see the justice if it's for medical reasons, to save innocent lives.

To save humanity, to save life.

These areas of discussion can strongly upset others, though.
Are you suggesting that dyslexic people are less developed than your average human? Because that seems kinda insulting to people with dyslexia comparing them with apes. My cousin has dyslexia and gets straight 80%+ marks and all he needed was a little help to "treat" it a bit ("treat" in quotations because you don't actually "treat" it). All it does is rearrange the letter order of  words, for example it would change "Insulting" to "Suntinling". Please look up what your talking about before making such a seemingly ignorant comment. dyslexia does not inhibit the functionality of your brain in any way besides screwing up the letter order of words. 

If you did not mean so, apologies, but that comment pretty strongly suggests that dyslexic people are " challenged", which would be very ignorant, insulting to some and incorrect. I suggest you watch the wording you use before making such comments in the future to avoid such confusion.
 ("Humans are animals, we are just more, developed. Shall we say? Imagine testing on a really dyslexic kid. That's what we're doing when we experiment on animals, such as apes.") 

Also, Humans are no more developed than Apes, so that is also incorrect.

@OP  

Only for medical and serious scientific purposes. If you have to severely injure the animal, kill it, or alter it without breeding, no.

OldSharpie February 27, 2015 at 3:02 PM UTC

I think that is justified for medical purposes, but not for cosmetics. Note this is just my opinion.

Trexychan February 27, 2015 at 4:02 PM UTC

Like all these smexy people before me, for medicinal purposes, and not for cosmetics.

To hell with facial cream.

Notalgicular February 27, 2015 at 4:02 PM UTC

I can't see how some people can be so strongly against animal testing yet still eat meat every day

hasl February 27, 2015 at 9:02 PM UTC

Are you suggesting that dyslexic people are less developed than your average human? Because that seems kinda insulting to people with dyslexia comparing them with apes. My cousin has dyslexia and gets straight 80%+ marks and all he needed was a little help to "treat" it a bit ("treat" in quotations because you don't actually "treat" it). All it does is rearrange the letter order of  words, for example it would change "Insulting" to "Suntinling". Please look up what your talking about before making such a seemingly ignorant comment. dyslexia does not inhibit the functionality of your brain in any way besides screwing up the letter order of words. 

If you did not mean so, apologies, but that comment pretty strongly suggests that dyslexic people are " challenged", which would be very ignorant, insulting to some and incorrect. I suggest you watch the wording you use before making such comments in the future to avoid such confusion.
 ("Humans are animals, we are just more, developed. Shall we say? Imagine testing on a really dyslexic kid. That's what we're doing when we experiment on animals, such as apes.") 

Also, Humans are no more developed than Apes, so that is also incorrect.

@OP  

Only for medical and serious scientific purposes. If you have to severely injure the animal, kill it, or alter it without breeding, no.
Sorry if I sounded offending. I sincerely didn't intend it.

@Sevo Yes I have, on book no.3. Great series.

The_Detonator_ February 27, 2015 at 11:02 PM UTC

That is excatly what I said. There is a diffrence between facts and opinions. But there is still no proof.
Except that humans are, by definition, animals.

The_Detonator_ February 27, 2015 at 11:02 PM UTC

There's a little thing called natural selection and I don't want it to turn into "artificial selection". If an entire species is going to go extinct because of our urge to be scientifically advanced passed the point that we are right now, then it bothers me. If it's our entire race vs another species entire race, they can go ahead and kill it off because I'd rather we all live than some less advanced species. I just don't want change that ruins an animal's way of life.
I don't really see how species being wiped out is related to animal testing in any way, could you please elaborate?

Spoookeh February 27, 2015 at 11:02 PM UTC

Seeing animals tested on really pains me. It's like testing new drugs on other humans, see if they die or not.
Would you sacrifice your last breath to save the entire human race if a decease broke out? I sure would.
Humans are animals, we are just more, developed. Shall we say? Imagine testing on a really dyslexic kid. That's what we're doing when we experiment on animals, such as apes.
I am always against it, but I can see the justice if it's for medical reasons, to save innocent lives.

To save humanity, to save life.

These areas of discussion can strongly upset others, though.
     Found what you said about "a really dyslexic kid" quite mean, it's like you compare them to a lab rat and think of them as 'lower species' than people without dyslexia... Sorry if you meant this in a different way.
     ANYWAY, I think that testing on animals IS in humane, but must be done, how else are we eventually going to find a cure for some of the major diseases in life? US, human beings, are at the top of the eco-system, therefore letting us do what we like to the world, this cannot be changed with a few protests against animal testing. And they don't do it as inhumanly as many might think: "jabbing needled into the body wherever they want to." These people ARE scientists, they know what they are doing and unfortunately it has to be done.

OriginaI February 28, 2015 at 2:02 AM UTC

lol they have already cloned animals 
3spooky5md