Avicus Archive

Why is this not a team kill? by Murphh March 7, 2015 at 3:03 PM UTC

I don't understand why video is needed to prove this team kill. 

It states in chat what the player did "spleefed into lava".

Other offenses have been temp banned like being shot off a skybase by the opposing team before walls drop.  That offense only seems to need chat evidence.

Why does this offense need video evidence?  What is the difference?  Can someone explain?

ProfessorUtonium March 7, 2015 at 3:03 PM UTC

This really does not need video evidence in my opinion. The only thing that needs video evidence to me is when players place lava or fire on you to kill you.

DJ_Barnsey March 7, 2015 at 3:03 PM UTC

I'm pretty sure that everyone that has played mine-craft has Accidentally spleefed someone before. It's pretty common for someone to break a block as another goes to stand on it and they happened to fall either into lava or the void. It's that reason why we that staff do not go off what chat says in these types of situations. 

A example: You're playing Nebula and you decide to break a block that another user had just walked onto and the chat says you spleefed that user. In this situation i would have to temp-ban you. Would that be right course of action?

We ask for video proof because it is too simple for anyone to manufacture evidence for this type of punishment. You could of easily been in spectator mode and took a screenshot while someone was near lava.

StewieFG March 7, 2015 at 3:03 PM UTC

I guess it's because some sort of lag. I remember sometimes when I used to play Nebula when I was on a bridge with a player from the other team and I hit him off it said spleefed out of the world.
Also, the staff want to be sure 100% before they punish a player, so they want to have both evidences before giving a punishment.

BoldAndBrash March 7, 2015 at 3:03 PM UTC

You can tell my his dirty smirk that he is a team killer.

No, but I actually believe it looked pretty obvious, but hey. I'm not a mod ;)

endergodx March 7, 2015 at 3:03 PM UTC

i know for sure that murph would never lie,this is true evidence of a teamkill.

DJ_Barnsey March 7, 2015 at 3:03 PM UTC

If you refer to the this Thread it states that 

When reporting a player for team spleefing, the death message “has been spleefed by” is not enough evidence for staff to punish a player.

If you are so paranoid by team-mates spleefing you. I suggest you record your games if it's possible.

Notalgicular March 7, 2015 at 4:03 PM UTC

i know for sure that murph would never lie,this is true evidence of a teamkill.
Lol...
So you dont think your friend is lying so its true evidance

Murphh March 7, 2015 at 4:03 PM UTC

If you refer to the this Thread it states that 

When reporting a player for team spleefing, the death message “has been spleefed by” is not enough evidence for staff to punish a player.

If you are so paranoid by team-mates spleefing you. I suggest you record your games if it's possible.
Okay, so this thread answers my question,
but I still disagree with the outcome. 
This was not lag or a set-up to frame someone. 
This was a pure team kill. 
So it's my fault I didn't record.
Blame the [paranoid] victim.  Woe is me...   :(

poem by: murph

Stimulating March 7, 2015 at 4:03 PM UTC

it has the chat msg right there

saying Murph was spleefed. 

There IS not much of an arguement

kycrafft March 7, 2015 at 4:03 PM UTC

it has the chat msg right there

saying Murph was spleefed. 

There IS not much of an arguement
If you break a block and someone walks to where that block was a second later and falls, it will be a spleen message. I've accidentally done it before in Nebula.

Murphh March 7, 2015 at 5:03 PM UTC

I will add two more cents and then I will drop it.

$.01) Nebula and Walls are completely different games with different motivations and types of players.  I really don't think you can compare the two.  Accidental spleefs on Walls are not as common as on Nebula. There is not as much void to contend with.

$.02) This map is Village.  If you are familiar with this map, you might know the place where this happened.  I am on the bottom of the mine getting the diamond that hangs above lava.  It is a common place for ill-motivated team members to "hang out" and wait to spleef you.  When I approach that area, I always look around me to make sure no one is around.  Unfortunately, I thought the coast was clear, but he sneaked up on me and spleefed me.  I have been killed here before, as have many players.  It is a known troll spot.

ImRaging March 7, 2015 at 5:03 PM UTC

Okay, so this thread answers my question,
but I still disagree with the outcome. 
This was not lag or a set-up to frame someone. 
This was a pure team kill. 
So it's my fault I didn't record.
Blame the [paranoid] victim.  Woe is me...   :(

poem by: murph
You can never know for sure whether it's a setup or real, even if you know the person really well. The rules have to be the same for everyone.

Mooch24 March 7, 2015 at 5:03 PM UTC

spleef messages aren't reliable enough to punish off of

GrapeSmoothie March 7, 2015 at 6:03 PM UTC

If you refer to the this Thread it states that 

When reporting a player for team spleefing, the death message “has been spleefed by” is not enough evidence for staff to punish a player.

If you are so paranoid by team-mates spleefing you. I suggest you record your games if it's possible.
This is teamkill "accidentally" who accidentally spleefs someone and doesn't at least says sorry

Zintenka March 7, 2015 at 6:03 PM UTC

And yet another person who commits an infraction walks away free... sigh...

I feel that Murph_the_cat is telling the truth. I've been spleefed on that area multiple times and i can tell you there is a very slim chance to accidentally spleef a teammate unless they're mining together.

Her report shows a lot of logic and makes a lot of sense since generally speaking, this is how spleefers operate.

Not everyone can have a recording software, like, the chance for you to encounter ppl with that is 1-30 people.

And with recording, how can you really expect someone to record after the infraction was committed--after they've been killed already? It just doesn't make sense. 

You cannot expect someone to "Know when they will be spleefed" otherwise if that were to happen, that would be a setup.

Come on, this is ridiculous to let him get away with this. And you know better people who think this is too "simple" to punish.

Polar_Express March 7, 2015 at 6:03 PM UTC

Murph, I feel your pain. :*(

JUBBINATOR March 7, 2015 at 6:03 PM UTC

And yet another person who commits an infraction walks away free... sigh...

I feel that Murph_the_cat is telling the truth. I've been spleefed on that area multiple times and i can tell you there is a very slim chance to accidentally spleef a teammate unless they're mining together.

Her report shows a lot of logic and makes a lot of sense since generally speaking, this is how spleefers operate.

Not everyone can have a recording software, like, the chance for you to encounter ppl with that is 1-30 people.

And with recording, how can you really expect someone to record after the infraction was committed--after they've been killed already? It just doesn't make sense. 

You cannot expect someone to "Know when they will be spleefed" otherwise if that were to happen, that would be a setup.

Come on, this is ridiculous to let him get away with this. And you know better people who think this is too "simple" to punish.
*her
She's a girl :3

Storm997 March 7, 2015 at 6:03 PM UTC

And yet another person who commits an infraction walks away free... sigh...

I feel that Murph_the_cat is telling the truth. I've been spleefed on that area multiple times and i can tell you there is a very slim chance to accidentally spleef a teammate unless they're mining together.

Her report shows a lot of logic and makes a lot of sense since generally speaking, this is how spleefers operate.

Not everyone can have a recording software, like, the chance for you to encounter ppl with that is 1-30 people.

And with recording, how can you really expect someone to record after the infraction was committed--after they've been killed already? It just doesn't make sense. 

You cannot expect someone to "Know when they will be spleefed" otherwise if that were to happen, that would be a setup.

Come on, this is ridiculous to let him get away with this. And you know better people who think this is too "simple" to punish.
No, you can't record every moment, and you can't know when you're about to get team killed, but they can't ban off chat messages.  It's not enough.  Yeah, It's possible that Murph was team killed, but we can't know, and that's the problem.  It's a matter of "Do we just ban everyone who looks suspicious, or be a bit more careful and only punish those who we KNOW broke the rules."  If we punish everyone, some people who didn't do anything wrong will get punished, but if we're too careful, some of the actual team killers will get off free.  How is that not an obvious choice?  An infraction sticks with you forever, and in this situation, there is no appeal, unless the offender had a recording.  It's like saying "Well, unless you have a recording of your own basement, we're going to arrest you for murdering the women in your basement because we found your shoes in the basement." Well, yeah, his shoes are there, but maybe he keeps his shoes in the basement. Sorry, that's a weird analogy, but I don't have a better one.  

tl;dr  We can't punish this because there's not enough evidence.  We need to know for sure that he was killed on purpose, because otherwise people could easily get banned for things they didn't do.  You mine out a block and then someone runs over it, and you get a temp ban?  Because they can't accept that it wasn't your fault, and they demand someone needs to be punished? It doesn't make sense.

_Mx_ March 7, 2015 at 7:03 PM UTC

I'm not saying this is helpful, but it's fair. I've accidently spleefed/teamkilled people before, like even myself. Imagine this k. So your just walking along and breaking blocks when a guy jumps into it, and it says u spleefed/teamkilled them. Then you get banned for it. If the mods were to accept this post, everyone would just put up photos of spleef/teamkill and we'd have countless of unfair bans. I'm not saying you're a liar, and I believe you, but I mean, everyone else would see this as "Oh I can get this person banned" and do it. Maybe this is wrong, but it's my opinion on this. :)

AutoHit March 7, 2015 at 7:03 PM UTC

This seems like team kill. The person spleefed Murph, proof of it, the teamkill message in chat, and if it was 'accidentally' or 'lag' the person would probably say something like "sorry".

Myv March 7, 2015 at 8:03 PM UTC

This doesn't need video evidence.

Emmaye March 7, 2015 at 8:03 PM UTC

This doesn't need video evidence.
Yes it does, read this again, as previously shown and stated my another Moderator earlier http://avicus.net/forums/fe28a294c.

Zintenka March 7, 2015 at 8:03 PM UTC

Yes but what could he possibly break a bridge for on walls, especially on village.

I mean, its not even as if he was "breaking a bridge to stop rushers".

This was in a diamond cave by the lava on walls. The guy even stood over him from the pic and was probably laughing behind his screen.

Zintenka March 7, 2015 at 8:03 PM UTC

My opinion is this, with a screenshot. You shouldn't follow a specific forma, a format tends to limit judgement and actions in scenarios like this.

So i'll use something more flexible like taking observations--forensics. 

From what i can see that proves that he purposefully team spleefed murph is that:
Most of the observations ive made point that the guy is clearly trolling...

kycrafft March 7, 2015 at 9:03 PM UTC

Yes but what could he possibly break a bridge for on walls, especially on village.

I mean, its not even as if he was "breaking a bridge to stop rushers".

This was in a diamond cave by the lava on walls. The guy even stood over him from the pic and was probably laughing behind his screen.
There are diamonds next to te lava. It is entirely possible that this person made a mistae and broke a block that Murph walked on to. 

While I believe Murph, I do not think it would be right to punish with such little evidence.

SnowSX3 March 7, 2015 at 9:03 PM UTC

Please read the whole post. So you understand what I'm saying.

Imagine if you accidentally spleefed someone and they took a screenshot and sent it in.

If we accepted screenshots as viable evidence then you would be temp-banned even though you had no intention of spleefing.

That seems quite unfair doesn't it?

This is why we do not accept screenshots for non-chat related situations. 
We do not know if the player spleefed intentionally or not, regardless of the screenshot taken.

Also, screenshots can easily be faked, for example, murph could have simply stood in that lava as a spectator to try and frame the player.

It's like if someone reporting you for fly hacks when all they have if a pic of you falling in mid air from a cliff.

If we accepted that then you'd be permanently banned.

Screenshots are very unreliable when it comes to non-chat related offences. These two examples that I have said are perfect reasons why we do not accept them for non-chat related offences.

You must have video evidence when reporting for non-chat related offences. This is the only way that we truly know what happened. 

People are saying "I trust murph, I think he's telling the truth." 
As Moderators, we have to remain unbiased when dealing with reports and will not "take your word for it".

Also, the only person that was there was Murph. 
I don't understand why some people are getting a bit angry at the staff when they didn't even witness anything.

Hacktivism March 7, 2015 at 9:03 PM UTC

Please read the whole post. So you understand what I'm saying.

Imagine if you accidentally spleefed someone and they took a screenshot and sent it in.

If we accepted screenshots as viable evidence then you would be temp-banned even though you had no intention of spleefing.

That seems quite unfair doesn't it?

This is why we do not accept screenshots for non-chat related situations. 
We do not know if the player spleefed intentionally or not, regardless of the screenshot taken.

Also, screenshots can easily be faked, for example, murph could have simply stood in that lava as a spectator to try and frame the player.

It's like if someone reporting you for fly hacks when all they have if a pic of you falling in mid air from a cliff.

If we accepted that then you'd be permanently banned.

Screenshots are very unreliable when it comes to non-chat related offences. These two examples that I have said are perfect reasons why we do not accept them for non-chat related offences.

You must have video evidence when reporting for non-chat related offences. This is the only way that we truly know what happened. 

People are saying "I trust murph, I think he's telling the truth." 
As Moderators, we have to remain unbiased when dealing with reports and will not "take your word for it".

Also, the only person that was there was Murph. 
I don't understand why some people are getting a bit angry at the staff when they didn't even witness anything.
How exactly did she fake it with spectator mode when it clearly says she was spleefed?

BoldAndBrash March 7, 2015 at 9:03 PM UTC

How exactly did she fake it with spectator mode when it clearly says she was spleefed?
xD

RightSide March 7, 2015 at 10:03 PM UTC

Video evidence does need to be supplied because it could have a been a accident and you show it to be a BAD thing which it could of been a accident and he said sorry and what not but you don't show us that !

Newcleus March 7, 2015 at 10:03 PM UTC

On multiple occasions, I have been playing Walls or Nebula, and I'm running along on a bridge or skybase of some sort, and the person is destroying part of it to renovate it or secure it.  I, not noticing that they did so, continue to run and fall into the gap that the other player created.  It then says in the chat that they have spleefed me.

Let's say I took a screenshot of this, and they get punished.

Is that right? No.

It's tough to punish spleefers, I get that. That being said, it's worse if you punish someone who has done nothing wrong.

Pavlo March 7, 2015 at 10:03 PM UTC

This seems to be becoming more of a flame war rather than debate....

Zintenka March 7, 2015 at 10:03 PM UTC

On multiple occasions, I have been playing Walls or Nebula, and I'm running along on a bridge or skybase of some sort, and the person is destroying part of it to renovate it or secure it.  I, not noticing that they did so, continue to run and fall into the gap that the other player created.  It then says in the chat that they have spleefed me.

Let's say I took a screenshot of this, and they get punished.

Is that right? No.

It's tough to punish spleefers, I get that. That being said, it's worse if you punish someone who has done nothing wrong.
That maybe so, but this was in a cave with diamonds

SnowSX3 March 7, 2015 at 10:03 PM UTC

This topic is going around in circles.

The bottom line is this.

We need video evidence for non-chat relates offences. 
If you don't have video evidence, we cannot do anything about it because we are not 100% aware of the situation.

My Skype is: SnowSX3
Feel free to talk to me if you have any further questions.

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