Let's talk about the competitive scene by Legoche February 21, 2017 at 8:02 PM UTC

Let's do not talk about bad things :(

I agree with pretty much all the points made here but just find it extremely stupid and irritating that the sr staff, officials or mapdevs haven't done what the competitive scene here needs.

There is an extreme lack of good, competitive maps on the server. Ever since ryan, eric and para have decided to remove their maps not enough have been submitted. Along with this the mapdev team apparently finds it very difficult to look at a map and decide whether to implement it on the server or not, not rocket science. But for me, I find it stupid and pointless removing your maps if they're gonna go to waste, why rub salt into the wound of an already dying competitive scene?

The lack of teams is purely because very little has come from mainly the officials/sr staff in attracting them. Where are the map testing events we were promised? Where's the advertising we were promised? It's not hard to contact a youtuber with 1k+ subs and ask them to record on the server, there's so damn many of them. Map testing is also non-existent, but this is partially to blame on the lack of maps coming to avicus (especially competitive). I'm sure if the officials made a post saying something like, "Map testing event Saturday 7pm GMT" then teams that are pretty much dead in the scrimming department such as apollo and allah would show up. The only way to explain the lack of new players AND teams is the tremendously low effort shown from the staff. 

There's plenty of people to blame so it's hard to force them to do anything about the dying competitive scene. But I'll say it for the one millionth fucking time; get more maps, advertise and create map testing events. It's not hard.

on a serious note, there is no motivation for me as a map maker to make maps for this network. no one takes care of them, no one puts effort into xmling them and the mapdev team are lazy af and all blame responsibilites on eachother. until this is not fixed all my maps will remain removed and i wont be making any maps for this server

I agree with pretty much all the points made here but just find it extremely stupid and irritating that the sr staff, officials or mapdevs haven't done what the competitive scene here needs.

There is an extreme lack of good, competitive maps on the server. Ever since ryan, eric and para have decided to remove their maps not enough have been submitted. Along with this the mapdev team apparently finds it very difficult to look at a map and decide whether to implement it on the server or not, not rocket science. But for me, I find it stupid and pointless removing your maps if they're gonna go to waste, why rub salt into the wound of an already dying competitive scene?

The lack of teams is purely because very little has come from mainly the officials/sr staff in attracting them. Where are the map testing events we were promised? Where's the advertising we were promised? It's not hard to contact a youtuber with 1k+ subs and ask them to record on the server, there's so damn many of them. Map testing is also non-existent, but this is partially to blame on the lack of maps coming to avicus (especially competitive). I'm sure if the officials made a post saying something like, "Map testing event Saturday 7pm GMT" then teams that are pretty much dead in the scrimming department such as apollo and allah would show up. The only way to explain the lack of new players AND teams is the tremendously low effort shown from the staff. 

There's plenty of people to blame so it's hard to force them to do anything about the dying competitive scene. But I'll say it for the one millionth fucking time; get more maps, advertise and create map testing events. It's not hard.

on a serious note, there is no motivation for me as a map maker to make maps for this network. no one takes care of them, no one puts effort into xmling them and the mapdev team are lazy af and all blame responsibilites on eachother. until this is not fixed all my maps will remain removed and i wont be making any maps for this server

No offense but I've played games of connect four that were more competitive than project redemption,

This is something that I did not expect from you, well I agree that lack of maps and lack of active teams are the problem of avicus competitive escene. First, for map devs guys you should focus or have people only for tournament maps because imo they are easier to make. Second, lack of teams, I invite people from teams to do videos of them playing tournaments or scrims I used to love videos from Eric aka Xuph and you Legoche but nowadays I think you do not upload anything to that platform, minorities make the majority important as soon as i restart my pc for completly i will do some videos for this community! lets get a hope!

Waiting too long, need to have more tournaments and better prizes. Yeah, I understand you have no money due to low donations and such, but if you have more tournaments and maybe a decent prize, that will attract more players and more teams which leads to possible more donations and other fun money-making senerios. Maybe have a certain tournament where it costs to enter and there being a cash prize pool?? idk just throwing out ideas on how other competitive games and servers run things.

Can confirm what  profbananaslug said. Wrote an simple xml for an avicus map in less than 5 mins.
Considering it was the first time I wrote one, it shouldn't be hard to write one in an hour.

The lack of compeitivenss is pretty much everyones fault, there is no one person or group of people to blame. We can all do something to try and contribute to the competitive scene but we don't. 

Advertising is our fault, as a senior staff team, but lets be honest a 1k youtuber wouldn't magically bring 100000 competitive players here and it wouldn't be all fairy tales. The problem with advertising is it costs money, something we don't have.

I do agree with you on the lack of maps and also the quality of the maps. But you cannot blame that souly on the mapdevs. When it comes to tournament maps, it's the officials in charge of the maps that deals with this kind of stuff, not the entire mapdev team. That being said you can't blame the officials either, if there are a lack of maps then why don't you all start making some maps if you're concerned about it.

tbh It isn't maps, advertisement or any other random reason why competitive has shrunken. Those are all smaller things that has contributed to a much larger problem which has caused the majority of this, that is the attitude change. Right now the attitude is "Lets not scrim because no other teams are active" or "the maps are shit so lets not scrim". That isn't the inactive teams fault or the maps fault, that's your problem fo holding that attitude. If you don't like the maps then give feedback to the map dev and improve them, if you want to scrim then don't just presume no other teams will scrim you because they will. Sag and Horizon are two teams that scrim on Avicus every week. Encouraging other teams will also help. It's really an attitude issue rather than a map or activity issue.This attitude/idea of well things are shit right now so instead of helping I'll just complain and waste my time. "All the other maps are bad so I'll just remove mine from all the rotations". Seriously, it isn't this much of a deal and it certainly isn't dead. If some of you actually helped out rather than just complained we might be somewhere else right about now. And this also goes towards advertising, most of you have friends who are decent size youtubers. Why don't you talk to them instead of just complaining? Well because of this attitude.

Where I am trying to get at is, if you want to fix competitive then the first thing you have to do, we all have to do is get rid of this ridiculous attitude.Even if I got a 50k youtuber to advertise, if this attitude stayed the same nothing would change except more players would join who could of played competitive but didn't because they were put off.

For the first time i kind of agree with you

but still the mapdev team is not doing shit, when i was a builder you could see that. Also they just throw responsibilities at eachother, unorganized and such. As a mapmaker i would want the mapdev team to take care of my map, fix bugs and such

Yes, I wouldn't say they're shit but they do need to improve, from an organisational point of view.

If you make a map for a server, and you give it to them, and you all the sudden want it removed, I do not think you should be able to do that. You are giving a minecraft map to a minecraft server, if you don't want them to have it anymore, too bad. It's like donating money to a charity, you can't just ask for it back when its been used. A map dev told me "its how we pay respects to them for giving us their map, by removing it if they ask"... I am a bit salty because five frenzy maps were removed and now I have three for my tournament. oh and wahiz is gone.

If you make a map for a server, and you give it to them, and you all the sudden want it removed, I do not think you should be able to do that. You are giving a minecraft map to a minecraft server, if you don't want them to have it anymore, too bad. It's like donating money to a charity, you can't just ask for it back when its been used. A map dev told me "its how we pay respects to them for giving us their map, by removing it if they ask"... I am a bit salty because five frenzy maps were removed and now I have three for my tournament. oh and wahiz is gone.

I'm like 50/50 on this. Whilst I do think it is a really dumb move to make to remove your map from a network for a real funny reason they did make the maps so technically they have every right to. I know when it comes to maps the whole ownership thing is a blur but on Avicus we do allow map makers to have rights. By Mojang, all maps/worlds belong to them, technically, so we could if we wanted to deny their request and keep the map. But on Avicus we do acknowledge that owners have rights and one of them is to remove a map for a valid reason.

It was'nt like this at the start but i hope it will remain like this, it's your job as a head staff to keep this enforced

Why do we bother still? 

Overcast died twice, well technically once and we should have immediately focussed on advertising Avicus.

Maybe hosted a tourney as soon as the closure happened so many teams would come over. 
Sigh

We're never gonna get that chance back and we're in a hole we've dug too deep to get out off.

Avicus will stay as it is, not die, just how it is now until server fees cannot be paid any longer, that's how we'll die. :)

See what I mean by we have to change the attitude >_>

Completely disagree.
This is nothing like donating money to a charity. This is more like a product you made and you give someone the copyrights and then you dont want them to have it any more.
All map makers should have  control over their maps and if they want it removed they should be able to get it removed, its their work and their project and they should have 100% authority over it. All big changes made to maps should be informed/approved by the map makers, minor changes no.

How? It's going to be difficult to have a positive attitude if we don't see any positive changes or figures.

I don't think a map is comparable to a product because u made that shit inside another product (i.e someone could've easily  copied ur shit and claimed it's theirs, not like yoi can sue them because technically for all you know you can just say you made it from scratch due to the endless possibilities of the craft)

The lack of compeitivenss is pretty much everyones fault, there is no one person or group of people to blame. We can all do something to try and contribute to the competitive scene but we don't. 

Advertising is our fault, as a senior staff team, but lets be honest a 1k youtuber wouldn't magically bring 100000 competitive players here and it wouldn't be all fairy tales. The problem with advertising is it costs money, something we don't have.

I do agree with you on the lack of maps and also the quality of the maps. But you cannot blame that souly on the mapdevs. When it comes to tournament maps, it's the officials in charge of the maps that deals with this kind of stuff, not the entire mapdev team. That being said you can't blame the officials either, if there are a lack of maps then why don't you all start making some maps if you're concerned about it.

tbh It isn't maps, advertisement or any other random reason why competitive has shrunken. Those are all smaller things that has contributed to a much larger problem which has caused the majority of this, that is the attitude change. Right now the attitude is "Lets not scrim because no other teams are active" or "the maps are shit so lets not scrim". That isn't the inactive teams fault or the maps fault, that's your problem fo holding that attitude. If you don't like the maps then give feedback to the map dev and improve them, if you want to scrim then don't just presume no other teams will scrim you because they will. Sag and Horizon are two teams that scrim on Avicus every week. Encouraging other teams will also help. It's really an attitude issue rather than a map or activity issue.This attitude/idea of well things are shit right now so instead of helping I'll just complain and waste my time. "All the other maps are bad so I'll just remove mine from all the rotations". Seriously, it isn't this much of a deal and it certainly isn't dead. If some of you actually helped out rather than just complained we might be somewhere else right about now. And this also goes towards advertising, most of you have friends who are decent size youtubers. Why don't you talk to them instead of just complaining? Well because of this attitude.

Where I am trying to get at is, if you want to fix competitive then the first thing you have to do, we all have to do is get rid of this ridiculous attitude.Even if I got a 50k youtuber to advertise, if this attitude stayed the same nothing would change except more players would join who could of played competitive but didn't because they were put off.

How can we scrim when all the good maps were removed? The source of all these issues comes to lack of maps and map makers

No. The source of all this comes back to the attitude. You blame it on the mapdevs, which isn't wrong, but instead of blaming it on someone why don't you help fix the problem? 

There are heaps of good maps on the map making subform, we as mapdevs just have to change our attitude, our organisation and get some of them into rotations. It would take less than a hour to do that if we actually sat down and did it.

Lack of maps is literally only a small portion of the problem. Even if we magically got good playing maps I guarantee you that would change next to nothing without changing our attitudes first. 

Two of your own teammates literally confirmed this. The maps are part of the problem, but in the big picture they're a small dot. We have to fix the attitude in order to fix everything else. If everyone believes it is hopeless and it will stay dead then what do you think will happen? Exactly that.

"You blame it on the mapdevs"

when the hell have I blamed it on mapdevs?
I blamed it on the lack of independent map makers.

Can confirm what  profbananaslug said. Wrote an simple xml for an avicus map in less than 5 mins.
Considering it was the first time I wrote one, it shouldn't be hard to write one in an hour.

The lack of compeitivenss is pretty much everyones fault, there is no one person or group of people to blame. We can all do something to try and contribute to the competitive scene but we don't. 

Advertising is our fault, as a senior staff team, but lets be honest a 1k youtuber wouldn't magically bring 100000 competitive players here and it wouldn't be all fairy tales. The problem with advertising is it costs money, something we don't have.

I do agree with you on the lack of maps and also the quality of the maps. But you cannot blame that souly on the mapdevs. When it comes to tournament maps, it's the officials in charge of the maps that deals with this kind of stuff, not the entire mapdev team. That being said you can't blame the officials either, if there are a lack of maps then why don't you all start making some maps if you're concerned about it.

tbh It isn't maps, advertisement or any other random reason why competitive has shrunken. Those are all smaller things that has contributed to a much larger problem which has caused the majority of this, that is the attitude change. Right now the attitude is "Lets not scrim because no other teams are active" or "the maps are shit so lets not scrim". That isn't the inactive teams fault or the maps fault, that's your problem fo holding that attitude. If you don't like the maps then give feedback to the map dev and improve them, if you want to scrim then don't just presume no other teams will scrim you because they will. Sag and Horizon are two teams that scrim on Avicus every week. Encouraging other teams will also help. It's really an attitude issue rather than a map or activity issue.This attitude/idea of well things are shit right now so instead of helping I'll just complain and waste my time. "All the other maps are bad so I'll just remove mine from all the rotations". Seriously, it isn't this much of a deal and it certainly isn't dead. If some of you actually helped out rather than just complained we might be somewhere else right about now. And this also goes towards advertising, most of you have friends who are decent size youtubers. Why don't you talk to them instead of just complaining? Well because of this attitude.

Where I am trying to get at is, if you want to fix competitive then the first thing you have to do, we all have to do is get rid of this ridiculous attitude.Even if I got a 50k youtuber to advertise, if this attitude stayed the same nothing would change except more players would join who could of played competitive but didn't because they were put off.

I don't think you quite understand how it works. You won't see any positive change or any change for that matter without having a different look on the whole situation. Things aren't going to change with the attitude of "o well competitive is dead lets not do anything about it".

"If some of you actually helped out rather than just complained we might be somewhere else right about now. And this also goes towards advertising, most of you have friends who are decent size youtubers. Why don't you talk to them instead of just complaining? Well because of this attitude."

Community blames staff, staff blames community. before you say it, yes that is indeed what you're implying.
It's not the attitude or any other excuse you're holding, it's the server. The gameplay IS NOT as good as it used to be, I'm 100% sure you know everything that's wrong with the server, so I won't waste my time bringing it up. Plus, if you didn't have the position you hold, you also wouldn't be interested in playing.
Believe it or not, I couldn't care less, it's all true.

Fair enough. Do you guys have any plans on fixing the current state of competitive then, since it may possibly be the solution to bringing more players in?

Well I stated earlier, if you're going to blame someone then everyone needs to be blamed. I would be interested in playing regardless of what rank I hold. I don't see anything wrong with the gameplay as it is right now, for me personally it's a lot better than a year ago.

You literally just made be bothered enough to log in and tell you.




You're  one hell of a positive guy, you offer many solutions - i like that!
*sarcasm totally...... not intended*

my mistake,
anyways it's everyone's fault, not just a select few.

The lack of compeitivenss is pretty much everyones fault, there is no one person or group of people to blame. We can all do something to try and contribute to the competitive scene but we don't. 

Advertising is our fault, as a senior staff team, but lets be honest a 1k youtuber wouldn't magically bring 100000 competitive players here and it wouldn't be all fairy tales. The problem with advertising is it costs money, something we don't have.

I do agree with you on the lack of maps and also the quality of the maps. But you cannot blame that souly on the mapdevs. When it comes to tournament maps, it's the officials in charge of the maps that deals with this kind of stuff, not the entire mapdev team. That being said you can't blame the officials either, if there are a lack of maps then why don't you all start making some maps if you're concerned about it.

tbh It isn't maps, advertisement or any other random reason why competitive has shrunken. Those are all smaller things that has contributed to a much larger problem which has caused the majority of this, that is the attitude change. Right now the attitude is "Lets not scrim because no other teams are active" or "the maps are shit so lets not scrim". That isn't the inactive teams fault or the maps fault, that's your problem fo holding that attitude. If you don't like the maps then give feedback to the map dev and improve them, if you want to scrim then don't just presume no other teams will scrim you because they will. Sag and Horizon are two teams that scrim on Avicus every week. Encouraging other teams will also help. It's really an attitude issue rather than a map or activity issue.This attitude/idea of well things are shit right now so instead of helping I'll just complain and waste my time. "All the other maps are bad so I'll just remove mine from all the rotations". Seriously, it isn't this much of a deal and it certainly isn't dead. If some of you actually helped out rather than just complained we might be somewhere else right about now. And this also goes towards advertising, most of you have friends who are decent size youtubers. Why don't you talk to them instead of just complaining? Well because of this attitude.

Where I am trying to get at is, if you want to fix competitive then the first thing you have to do, we all have to do is get rid of this ridiculous attitude.Even if I got a 50k youtuber to advertise, if this attitude stayed the same nothing would change except more players would join who could of played competitive but didn't because they were put off.

Why do we bother still? 

Overcast died twice, well technically once and we should have immediately focussed on advertising Avicus.

Maybe hosted a tourney as soon as the closure happened so many teams would come over. 
Sigh

We're never gonna get that chance back and we're in a hole we've dug too deep to get out off.

Avicus will stay as it is, not die, just how it is now until server fees cannot be paid any longer, that's how we'll die. :)

If you make a map for a server, and you give it to them, and you all the sudden want it removed, I do not think you should be able to do that. You are giving a minecraft map to a minecraft server, if you don't want them to have it anymore, too bad. It's like donating money to a charity, you can't just ask for it back when its been used. A map dev told me "its how we pay respects to them for giving us their map, by removing it if they ask"... I am a bit salty because five frenzy maps were removed and now I have three for my tournament. oh and wahiz is gone.

Good post.

The competitive scene was at its worse back in November 2015 when there was a 8 team tournament. We bounced back to a 20 team tournament 6/7 months later after a break. I am not sure if that will happen again though.

So, after we held Battle Of Eternity, the best event we had ever held for several reasons:

• Most teams
• Several cheaters got banned

However there were also a lot of downs. After that tournament finished, which was in the 2nd weekend of July I believe, we wanted to announce our next tournament in the following August. This coincidentally happened to be when OCN closed down, which was a great opportunity. At this stage, we were receiving 120 players on weekends consistently. This was amazing, this hadn't been seen ever since I joined the server 18 months earlier. But then something happened.

Atlas came out.

Hence, scrim servers got removed. The player count went down. We couldn't have a tournament for a while, and we didn't know when we could. We didn't know how much progress was being made on the tournament plugin. We knew as much as you. Kylo wouldn't listen, he didn't realise how much the scrim servers had an effect on the competitive scene, which effected Avicus' player count. This lead to people leaving the server. Atlas wasn't ready and rushed, due to, what I've heard, being because of pressure from the admins at the time.

We couldn't have a tournament for another 2/3 months. This was a massive downfall. We hoped for a 32 team tournament. We had missed the biggest advantage we had - OCN shutting down.

We had everything planned for months; except the dates. We didn't know until a week before we announced Project Redemption when it would be. That's why we couldn't do map testing, or anything. Nothing was ready, we needed a tournament. Map testing would have killed the competitive community more - everyone wanted a tournament. 

Here we are today. I'm not as active as I was then, the official team has new leadership so I don't have to do EVERYTHING anymore. 

This is where the downfall started, and yes, there are new problems today. Those do come with people removing their maps, but I don't want to go in to that. Don't want to be forum banned and/ or demoted.

I do not think the amount of teams is something we can now control.

The amount of maps, the quality of those are down to YOU. We, Officials, can not do anything there. We need quality competitive maps.

Good post.

The competitive scene was at its worse back in November 2015 when there was a 8 team tournament. We bounced back to a 20 team tournament 6/7 months later after a break. I am not sure if that will happen again though.

So, after we held Battle Of Eternity, the best event we had ever held for several reasons:

• Most teams
• Several cheaters got banned

However there were also a lot of downs. After that tournament finished, which was in the 2nd weekend of July I believe, we wanted to announce our next tournament in the following August. This coincidentally happened to be when OCN closed down, which was a great opportunity. At this stage, we were receiving 120 players on weekends consistently. This was amazing, this hadn't been seen ever since I joined the server 18 months earlier. But then something happened.

Atlas came out.

Hence, scrim servers got removed. The player count went down. We couldn't have a tournament for a while, and we didn't know when we could. We didn't know how much progress was being made on the tournament plugin. We knew as much as you. Kylo wouldn't listen, he didn't realise how much the scrim servers had an effect on the competitive scene, which effected Avicus' player count. This lead to people leaving the server. Atlas wasn't ready and rushed, due to, what I've heard, being because of pressure from the admins at the time.

We couldn't have a tournament for another 2/3 months. This was a massive downfall. We hoped for a 32 team tournament. We had missed the biggest advantage we had - OCN shutting down.

We had everything planned for months; except the dates. We didn't know until a week before we announced Project Redemption when it would be. That's why we couldn't do map testing, or anything. Nothing was ready, we needed a tournament. Map testing would have killed the competitive community more - everyone wanted a tournament. 

Here we are today. I'm not as active as I was then, the official team has new leadership so I don't have to do EVERYTHING anymore. 

This is where the downfall started, and yes, there are new problems today. Those do come with people removing their maps, but I don't want to go in to that. Don't want to be forum banned and/ or demoted.

I do not think the amount of teams is something we can now control.

The amount of maps, the quality of those are down to YOU. We, Officials, can not do anything there. We need quality competitive maps.

this guy gets it
it's so great that right when ocn was about to shut down, avicus was close to unplayable because of atlas
i don't even really understand why atlas was necessary, everything seems the same now that most of the bugs have been squashed

"I don't see anything wrong with the gameplay as it is right now, for me personally it's a lot better than a year ago."
http://prntscr.com/ec1pv0 pls

you seriously cannot blame us. you want to know why its died so much? one reason being scrim servers being shut down for so long when they were shut down. if that doesn't kill the competitive scene then who knows. don't blame us when you have most the power to do things to fix it.

I'm pretty sure the reason why no one is on is because of the ban evader and not because of the gameplay....

So stop the ban evader? Shouldn't that be your top priority?

I dont give single fuck about all shits gonna reply to my post "GREAT OPTIMISM AND POSITIVTY! AT LEAST YOU COULD COME UP WITH SOLUTIONS"

And no, you cannot. This server has done too many mistakes and it dug too deep into the hole it is now like aura said, you cannot save it anymore. all these solutions shouldve been done earlier, its too late now.

So stop the ban evader? Shouldn't that be your top priority?

Your advertisement argument is completely wrong. You have quite obviously not tried hard enough.

I know you don't know, but do you want me to tell you the youtubers I had lined for Equinox, how I got them, and how much I paid?

I had Hivlik, Avery, VadriFlash, Delta, wylt, with a lot more with 1k +. The reason I had this is because we were a 1.7 server. We supported 1.7. You can't use this as an argument anymore, because you also support 1.7. I paid nothing. 0 dollars. Your advertising argument is pathetic.

Well it clearly isn't. You don't know our situation, you just assume it and hope you're right. We are not some famous million dollar business, if we were then I guarentee you there would be more youtubers than players on the server, and we aren't a business with a whole load of ties to the Minecraft youtuber community. Avicus is in a completely different situation to equinox, you cannot compare the two.

And even if we did have a whole bunch of 1k youtubers it would do nothing without fixing the source of the issue. It wouldn't be all sunshine and rainbows. New players would come yes but what would come of it when there would be no teams to scrim or no teams for them to join? They would just leave. Hivlik himself told us we should focus on making Avicus better, as a server, than advertising with youtubers.We have to fix the problem before we do advertisement, you of all people would know this.

Well it clearly isn't. You don't know our situation, you just assume it and hope you're right. We are not some famous million dollar business, if we were then I guarentee you there would be more youtubers than players on the server, and we aren't a business with a whole load of ties to the Minecraft youtuber community. Avicus is in a completely different situation to equinox, you cannot compare the two.

And even if we did have a whole bunch of 1k youtubers it would do nothing without fixing the source of the issue. It wouldn't be all sunshine and rainbows. New players would come yes but what would come of it when there would be no teams to scrim or no teams for them to join? They would just leave. Hivlik himself told us we should focus on making Avicus better, as a server, than advertising with youtubers.We have to fix the problem before we do advertisement, you of all people would know this.

Then try to be a business, starting on improving the variety of gamemodes and maps. the next is changing the scrim servers and tournaments(because I participated in 2 tournaments, and they were so bad on hosting and in interest of the community), then changing the community and finally calling some youtubers. If you want this server to be good you will have to use some money for it, but when the server could run correctly, you will recieve all the money you expend on this and there more. So with this effort you could make avicus "great again".
But if you keep talking shit and not doing anything like now, this server will finish as OCN did.

I dont give single fuck about all shits gonna reply to my post "GREAT OPTIMISM AND POSITIVTY! AT LEAST YOU COULD COME UP WITH SOLUTIONS"

And no, you cannot. This server has done too many mistakes and it dug too deep into the hole it is now like aura said, you cannot save it anymore. all these solutions shouldve been done earlier, its too late now.

Why do we bother still? 

Overcast died twice, well technically once and we should have immediately focussed on advertising Avicus.

Maybe hosted a tourney as soon as the closure happened so many teams would come over. 
Sigh

We're never gonna get that chance back and we're in a hole we've dug too deep to get out off.

Avicus will stay as it is, not die, just how it is now until server fees cannot be paid any longer, that's how we'll die. :)

Guys positive attitude! Let's do what is in our hands to get a solution and please do not blame other sides when you can do your part.

It's never too late. Considering we use to average 3 players before hitting peaks of up to 2000 anything is possible and we certainly have a lot of time before anything really bad happens with Avicus so we might as well spend it productively then thinking about what could have been.

You can't stop vpns.

Did u think about an anti-VPN? LOLOLOL dude look u r an administrator u know wat it's happening on the network U KNOW CUZ IM PRETTY SURE THAT IF U R AN ADMIN ITS BCUZ U R PREPARED FOR THIS that a single hacker it's not the main problem, U r the only one in this thread that says that avicus is good and that THE MAIN problem on the network it's our attitude when it's not u can clearly see on post like trying to improve the staff ( lots and lots of those ) and posts trying to improve little things, this posts show u that u r not right stop lying to u "those good years" were on MCZone now it's Avicus 2017 everything it's different u can't just see the past and hope that one just by a miracle 2000 people come to the server when the maps are not good EVERYONE IS COMPLAINING ABOUT MAPS and they still on rots, if players don't have a "positive attitude or whatever u wanna call it" from the staff and mapdevs then why we ( the players ) should have a positive attitude then. STOP LYING TO YOU AVICUS ITS NOT FINE OMG

I'm pretty sure the reason why no one is on is because of the ban evader and not because of the gameplay....

You're a cunt.

Tried countless times to suggest something to save the competitive scene, always get shot down my Funky himself.

Ok this is beginning to trigger me here.....

First of all, we need to clearly define that we need more players before some go competitive. Eg. We Advertise and get 100 new players, only 1/20 of them join competitive, so we get only 5   competitive peeps, with 1000, it would be 50, etc. Now I'm just making those numbers up, idk the ratio of kids that stay and become competitive, but you get the point, some will.

Map problem:

Admittedly it would be a lovely thing if we had one or two lovely maps be added each week, but realistically that isn't going to happen. Why can't the whole mapdev team pick a few times a week and build a map together? There are 10 of you. Most maps have 2-4ish authors, why can't the 10  work together and release a new competitive map every 2nd Saturday/Sunday? Open it with a mega scrim or something, because those and tournaments seem to be the 2 times avicus hits more than the attendance in my math class.


Youtubers:
*You will be here for a while, so please be get comfy for several minutes of reading:

1. Drop the price of lifetime gold rank and just make it so it "Can join full teams". Until you can revive the server. no one wants to purchase the overpriced rank that literally does nothing. Just change lifetime gold to $5 that "Can join full teams" and drop the lifetime price of emerald to $30 and I'll explain why later.

2. Get a good public rotation together - Even if the amount of maps is not keeping up with Donald Trump's amount of racist comments, we still have some decent ones. Rend3 DTM and CTW (Put one at the start of rotation, one at the end, so no one remembers there are 2 of them in there), Wahiz, all 3 justices, Senex CTW, Formorgar 2, Rendezvous 1, Sector 6, Sunbeam Temple, Arizona and whatever the new luar is called. Now admittedly half of those don't play well as competitive maps, but some of the public players seem to like 35 people running around Rendezvous 1.

3. If there is enough money to pay developers and server fees, I don't know why there is not enough to pay for some smallish youtuber. Get one with 10k ish subs to start off with. Set a time with them when they will come on and record a game and tell some of us regulars and staff members when that is happening. That way we can have a decent skill level portrayed in the first video. But also it can stop stalemates - If we get all the regulars/staff playing into TS, We can "Rig" the game in a way. Youtubers like 15-20 minutes videos  on average yeah? So if we have 29/30 people who are playing in TS, we can control that time. Now granted that isn't 100% fair, but it does stop a 3 minute game, that everyone rushes and it stops the "10 man defense on a team with 15 players, holy shit, we're really good defenders" game that goes for 3 hours. This way the youtuber, who is probably 12 years old, goes away having a really fun time and conveying the "This server is fun" attitude in his video

4. At the end of the video, get the youtuber to say "I will be playing on this server again next *Insert day here* at *Insert time here* They can have the IP show up on their screen as they say this. Next whatever time and day they pick, if they have 10k subs, I'm going to guess that at least 200 people show up. I imagine it could be a lot more, possibly up to 2000, but I'll be harsh in my numbers to show my point.  Those 200 players will soon realise "Hang on I can't join the game" Thats when Kylo's clever coding of "Join full games for $5" or something of the sort pops up regularly if you are in spectators, we dont wanna spam players with it, but we want our 170 kids in spectator spawn to know about it.

5. Thats right, this is where our $5 actually useful and not terribly overpriced rank comes in to play. As I said earlier, the youtuber is probably 12, so his fanbase will be 9 years old on average. Mineplex and Hypixel love 9 year olds and so should we. And if its only $5, not the $50 it is on other servers:
"MUM I NEED $5!"
"What for sweety, we just paid $100 to Madlion, Mineplox and Hi Pixel"
"BUT ITS ONLY $5 AND I CAN PLAY WITH CREEPERLEGEND5 (Or any other 10k sub 12 year old name here)"

6. Lo and behold, by the time they have donated and 60 additional kids have donated and joined to make a 100 player game on wahiz, the youtuber is ready to finish the recording. That is the easiest $300 you will ever see, and remember, I was very harsh on the number of kids that turned up. Now that there are kiddies who know what avicus is and a youtuber who has an understanding of the server, its time to rescue competitive.

7. Out of nowhere a tournament pops up. Apollo or some team that will make it to at least 2nd (xD) can take the youtuber into their team so he doesn't get knocked out first round, ik he is 12, but just put up with him for a few hours. He can record his POV in the tourney. He can make a pre tourney video advertising it, he can include a tutorial on how to enter. Now an army of 9 year olds want to beat their lord and saviour in mineman are at out door. If even 800 of his 10k fans want to get into teams of 16, that is an additional 50 teams. We could have a tourney of 64 teams. I know it would be mainly made up of 9 year olds and 12 year olds but you get the point, we have a big tourney with a captive audience.

8. Now this step is optional and will probably recieve backlash, but we need money to keep avicus alive and because 9 year olds will likely pay us anyway. Add a new feature to teams called "Premium" which is a simple yes/no option. To play in this tournament, your team must be premium. The premium cost is $30, hey thats exactly what you said the emerald rank should cost, exactly! Or it could be made up of 6 players who have the gold rank:6 x $5 = $30. Now already existing teams will get around this as they already have $30 of donation in them, so they'll be premium already. Make this tournament premium and between 16 9 year olds getting the chance to play with their hero, we will get $30 from their team. 50 teams of 9 year olds x $30 = $1500. Not bad for our first tourney - with only a 10k youtuber.

9. By this stage we could go wild, we could buy a bigger youtuber, offer cash prizes for the next tournament, which of course would be premium too. We would be more well known in the world of servers and could look at doing deals such as contradeals with other big servers. I remember there was avicus merchandise somewhere, maybe we could offer that through our youtubers, maybe give them 20% of sales? So we have a variety of options here.

So by step 9 we have:
*A decent playerbase, probably better than decent.
*Youtuber/s who have a good relationship with community, whether we keep the small 12 year old or expand into a bigger youtuber who knows, but we have the funds for this.
*Possible way to make merchandise work
*Money
*New blood in competitive scene
*With several hundred more kids on, some of which will undoubtedly go on to become mapdevs, hey thats another problem solved
*Possible partnerships/contradeals with other servers who were before unwilling to deal with us because we were so small, but now are taking us seriously
*Ranks which people are actually willing to buy.
*No need for threads like "HELLO ADMINS, SERVER IS DED" or "How long do we have left" or this thread.

Thats just how I would do it, my 10c worth.

He never wanted a competitive aspect.

Well he wouldn't have the community he has now... even if its small.

Ok this is beginning to trigger me here.....

First of all, we need to clearly define that we need more players before some go competitive. Eg. We Advertise and get 100 new players, only 1/20 of them join competitive, so we get only 5   competitive peeps, with 1000, it would be 50, etc. Now I'm just making those numbers up, idk the ratio of kids that stay and become competitive, but you get the point, some will.

Map problem:

Admittedly it would be a lovely thing if we had one or two lovely maps be added each week, but realistically that isn't going to happen. Why can't the whole mapdev team pick a few times a week and build a map together? There are 10 of you. Most maps have 2-4ish authors, why can't the 10  work together and release a new competitive map every 2nd Saturday/Sunday? Open it with a mega scrim or something, because those and tournaments seem to be the 2 times avicus hits more than the attendance in my math class.


Youtubers:
*You will be here for a while, so please be get comfy for several minutes of reading:

1. Drop the price of lifetime gold rank and just make it so it "Can join full teams". Until you can revive the server. no one wants to purchase the overpriced rank that literally does nothing. Just change lifetime gold to $5 that "Can join full teams" and drop the lifetime price of emerald to $30 and I'll explain why later.

2. Get a good public rotation together - Even if the amount of maps is not keeping up with Donald Trump's amount of racist comments, we still have some decent ones. Rend3 DTM and CTW (Put one at the start of rotation, one at the end, so no one remembers there are 2 of them in there), Wahiz, all 3 justices, Senex CTW, Formorgar 2, Rendezvous 1, Sector 6, Sunbeam Temple, Arizona and whatever the new luar is called. Now admittedly half of those don't play well as competitive maps, but some of the public players seem to like 35 people running around Rendezvous 1.

3. If there is enough money to pay developers and server fees, I don't know why there is not enough to pay for some smallish youtuber. Get one with 10k ish subs to start off with. Set a time with them when they will come on and record a game and tell some of us regulars and staff members when that is happening. That way we can have a decent skill level portrayed in the first video. But also it can stop stalemates - If we get all the regulars/staff playing into TS, We can "Rig" the game in a way. Youtubers like 15-20 minutes videos  on average yeah? So if we have 29/30 people who are playing in TS, we can control that time. Now granted that isn't 100% fair, but it does stop a 3 minute game, that everyone rushes and it stops the "10 man defense on a team with 15 players, holy shit, we're really good defenders" game that goes for 3 hours. This way the youtuber, who is probably 12 years old, goes away having a really fun time and conveying the "This server is fun" attitude in his video

4. At the end of the video, get the youtuber to say "I will be playing on this server again next *Insert day here* at *Insert time here* They can have the IP show up on their screen as they say this. Next whatever time and day they pick, if they have 10k subs, I'm going to guess that at least 200 people show up. I imagine it could be a lot more, possibly up to 2000, but I'll be harsh in my numbers to show my point.  Those 200 players will soon realise "Hang on I can't join the game" Thats when Kylo's clever coding of "Join full games for $5" or something of the sort pops up regularly if you are in spectators, we dont wanna spam players with it, but we want our 170 kids in spectator spawn to know about it.

5. Thats right, this is where our $5 actually useful and not terribly overpriced rank comes in to play. As I said earlier, the youtuber is probably 12, so his fanbase will be 9 years old on average. Mineplex and Hypixel love 9 year olds and so should we. And if its only $5, not the $50 it is on other servers:
"MUM I NEED $5!"
"What for sweety, we just paid $100 to Madlion, Mineplox and Hi Pixel"
"BUT ITS ONLY $5 AND I CAN PLAY WITH CREEPERLEGEND5 (Or any other 10k sub 12 year old name here)"

6. Lo and behold, by the time they have donated and 60 additional kids have donated and joined to make a 100 player game on wahiz, the youtuber is ready to finish the recording. That is the easiest $300 you will ever see, and remember, I was very harsh on the number of kids that turned up. Now that there are kiddies who know what avicus is and a youtuber who has an understanding of the server, its time to rescue competitive.

7. Out of nowhere a tournament pops up. Apollo or some team that will make it to at least 2nd (xD) can take the youtuber into their team so he doesn't get knocked out first round, ik he is 12, but just put up with him for a few hours. He can record his POV in the tourney. He can make a pre tourney video advertising it, he can include a tutorial on how to enter. Now an army of 9 year olds want to beat their lord and saviour in mineman are at out door. If even 800 of his 10k fans want to get into teams of 16, that is an additional 50 teams. We could have a tourney of 64 teams. I know it would be mainly made up of 9 year olds and 12 year olds but you get the point, we have a big tourney with a captive audience.

8. Now this step is optional and will probably recieve backlash, but we need money to keep avicus alive and because 9 year olds will likely pay us anyway. Add a new feature to teams called "Premium" which is a simple yes/no option. To play in this tournament, your team must be premium. The premium cost is $30, hey thats exactly what you said the emerald rank should cost, exactly! Or it could be made up of 6 players who have the gold rank:6 x $5 = $30. Now already existing teams will get around this as they already have $30 of donation in them, so they'll be premium already. Make this tournament premium and between 16 9 year olds getting the chance to play with their hero, we will get $30 from their team. 50 teams of 9 year olds x $30 = $1500. Not bad for our first tourney - with only a 10k youtuber.

9. By this stage we could go wild, we could buy a bigger youtuber, offer cash prizes for the next tournament, which of course would be premium too. We would be more well known in the world of servers and could look at doing deals such as contradeals with other big servers. I remember there was avicus merchandise somewhere, maybe we could offer that through our youtubers, maybe give them 20% of sales? So we have a variety of options here.

So by step 9 we have:
*A decent playerbase, probably better than decent.
*Youtuber/s who have a good relationship with community, whether we keep the small 12 year old or expand into a bigger youtuber who knows, but we have the funds for this.
*Possible way to make merchandise work
*Money
*New blood in competitive scene
*With several hundred more kids on, some of which will undoubtedly go on to become mapdevs, hey thats another problem solved
*Possible partnerships/contradeals with other servers who were before unwilling to deal with us because we were so small, but now are taking us seriously
*Ranks which people are actually willing to buy.
*No need for threads like "HELLO ADMINS, SERVER IS DED" or "How long do we have left" or this thread.

Thats just how I would do it, my 10c worth.

I dont give single fuck about all shits gonna reply to my post "GREAT OPTIMISM AND POSITIVTY! AT LEAST YOU COULD COME UP WITH SOLUTIONS"

And no, you cannot. This server has done too many mistakes and it dug too deep into the hole it is now like aura said, you cannot save it anymore. all these solutions shouldve been done earlier, its too late now.

It's not.

Unfortunately rend 3 DTM and ctw, Wahiz and senex ctw were removed

Yes it is
its never gonna come back to its glory days like iron said and it's not gonna become big ever again. There's not enough people putting effort and not enough people to care. Great opportunities were dumbly missed and I don't believe this server is going to succeed again, I agree with aura and iron most

I agree, but he has always been reluctant towards helping competitive.

Can you shoot me, I don't have the manparts to shoot myself

Yes but it's a lot easier if everyone plays a hand in fixing things rather than just a few individuals making small changes that barely anyone notices.

Well, advertising wouldn't just help the competitive scene, It would mainly help the server.

It's never too late. Considering we use to average 3 players before hitting peaks of up to 2000 anything is possible and we certainly have a lot of time before anything really bad happens with Avicus so we might as well spend it productively then thinking about what could have been.

Im agree with you in that, but you could be agree with me that this is not going to happen because the most part of the community is not interested in solvingg the problems of the server. They just play and then they are complaining about how bad the server is, but without contributing in solving the server problem´s,
So that is why I think it is easier what I said in the last post.

First off, I want to say that this is going to be a pretty long page of feedback. If you truly care about the competitive scene, you will take the time to read the whole thing.

KoTH Tournament?

King of The Hill Tournament? Is this gamemode even in public rotations LOL? How are we supposed to play a tournament for a game that cannot even be practiced. I hear bits and pieces of KoTH here and there, but seriously, why this gamemode? 

Statistics

Sure, there is a tournament every now and then , but there is no ranking system to place each team and encourage them to increase their ranking, or retain their #1 position. I've suggested to  ALM a couple of times about having advanced statistics tracking such as K/D, Objectives Forwarded, Objectives Against, and lots of other criterions that we can save for another day. Otherwise, there is nothing to strive for. I'm sure most of us have heard of or are very familiar with the game called Counter:Strike-Global Offensive. They have a huge competitive player base and one of the things that caused this is an advanced statistics page. I'll use this website as an example: http://www.hltv.org/. If you take a quick look without knowing anything about the game, you can see some of the top players, upcoming matches (would be useful for tournaments), results (to review past matches), news (such as roster changes), and more all on the home page. Now I think that if Avicus had a page of it's own similar to this, it would definitely encourage people to strive to be the top. For example, let's say from the TDM tournament I have a K/D of 0.95. I look on the leaderboards and I see that someone above me has a K/D of 0.96. I would do my best to pass that player and even get a positive K/D. Based on statistics, you could also see who is constantly bringing down the team, and perhaps roster changes would be the go to.

Team Sizes

I think that these 8v8 sizes are a little too big with the current state of Avicus. Considering that there are <2500 weekly Avicus users, you won't be able to expect too many teams signing up. Especially with the fact that you can sign up about 18 people, it limits the amount of teams even more. As I'm sure most of us remembered, OCN pulled off a similar idea to what I suggested, but there is one reason why it didn't work out, their player base was big enough already so the team sizes they had were appropriate at the time and therefore they angered the community. Simply saying, if you change a 18-man squad to a 9-man squad for tournaments, you can expect many more teams to sign up. You would have double the amount of teams plus many smaller teams that could never acquire a large amount of players. We could easily be seeing 32, maybe even 64 teams. With more teams comes more flexibility, and matches could be scheduled by region to suit each team's needs during the tournament. I'm not saying that it's bad to have big teams, but as Avicus starts to grow, team sizes can increase.

Maps

I agree with what  Legoche said, there definitely needs to be a better way to deal with tournament maps. There always seems to be errors with the XML or people just simply don't make maps. Don't blame the community,  ard and it won't have a significant impact on Avicus sales. There is simply no incentives for the community to help, because nothing gets done.

Prizes

Let's be honest, for competitions in general whether it's a video game or a food eating contest, not too many people will be interested if there is nothing of monetary value to gain. If the team sizes are reduced, a $25 steam card would be a nice reward for the team to share. I'm sure that Avicus can afford to give the cost of a full-time gold rank as a prize that several people can enjoy.
 
Constantly Different Map Pool

I get that we want to be diverse in maps, but this basically makes any prior experience on it irrelevant after the tournament ends. For example, the original Supply TDM was a pretty good map, and right after the tournament, it's taken out and revised. Cacalmarin was actually pretty decent at that map and now all past strategies on that map are irrelevant.

The Veto Process

I mentioned this before that the two teams who are versing each other should be allowed to pick the maps among themselves through a veto process. Not through the maps that the officials want us to play. Now last time I talked about this, the officials said that we should be prepared for any map that they give us. Why should this be the case? We are supposed to verse another team, not the officials. In order to have the most even gameplay, you play a map that both teams are pretty decent on, not a map that one team dominates on and one that the other sucks on. Even in tennis, if you lose the racket flip, you at least get to choose the side that doesn't have the sun in your eyes.

TL;DR

We need lots of stuff to be done by the developers in order to make this happen and the officials should slightly tweak the way they run tournaments considering the current state of Avicus. There is definitely a lot more to it then this, but that I will save for a later day. Let's tackle the big issues first and work our way down to fixing the minor ones.

How come older members of the community are coming back? What's making them come back?

I agree that opportunities were missed but that isn't a reason to say it's too late for anything.

In a growth mindset, people believe that their most basic abilities can be developed through dedication and hard work—brains and talent are just the starting point. This view creates a love of learning and a resilience that is essential for great accomplishment. Virtually all great people have had these qualities.

Im agree with you in that, but you could be agree with me that this is not going to happen because the most part of the community is not interested in solvingg the problems of the server. They just play and then they are complaining about how bad the server is, but without contributing in solving the server problem´s,
So that is why I think it is easier what I said in the last post.

I live in a sandbox. UMAD? - Admins/Mod I killz Itzjust4fun: YAYAYAYYAYAYAYYA Jubbinator: YAYAYAYAYYAYAYAYAY Gilettracer: YAYAYAYAYAYAYYAYA Howsie: YAYAYYAYA Hughsie: YAYAYAYAYYAYAY Alright before you take shots, yes this is my profile, and I did this at the age of 10-11, so stfu lol :)

Well, advertising wouldn't just help the competitive scene, It would mainly help the server.

Well I don't want to be negative. There are people who do care and want to make change, it's just the majority of the community doesn't seem to care which is a shame.

If Avicus is going to host another tourney, it needs to consider the following:
Player Count: If only say 4 teams are going to participate, then obviously the tourney isn't going to happen. When I log on to Avicus in my timezone, max players I see on weekday is 50 and weekends is around 65. If you know that you aren't going to have enough players/teams, then lets work on advertising, as suggested by a few players. Avicus has social media like twitter, instagram, youtube. It needs to constantly use it to at least try reel more players in. I get that Minecraft is dying as a whole, but with all the millions of players out there who have never heard of avicus, try get their attention, persuade them to join,and see what happens from there. If really needed, I know a few youtubers who could potentially play and maybe even record. We just to have to try our best with player counts, and see what we can get from that.

Maps: Good maps means good gameplay. Regardless if it is public or competitive, we want maps that have good gameplay. Meaning: decent space for pvp, mon or wool rooms in areas which can be defended well, and decent sized height limits. While these are based on both the community and mapdev team, the community has to have an input in deciding whether those made maps have potential in either public or comp servers, or neither.

When: If you are going to host a tourney right when school starts, expect only a small amount of players. If you do it in the summer holidays, expect more. Basic common sense point, no need to explain further.

Prizes: Make prizes better, a forum tag looks cool but really isn't worth winning a tourney for. (If anything else is included, lemme know). (Only modify this if you know you are successfully hosting a tourney)

Not gonna lie, the prizes for tourneys are really bad. I think that's one of the reasons there aren't so many teams signing up for tourneys and not as much competitiveness.

Poker's idea of a giftcard for a prize was pretty ideal.

idk tbh,

me personally, i have NEVER played a tourney for the money.

Honestly, who cares anymore?

Project redemption wasn't very competitive I agree