The Vote by Tazz May 8, 2017 at 4:05 PM UTC

mad respect to piez for actually talking to us, owning up to what he did, and resigning from official

also many thanks to kyoal, who was inactive as hell but didn't forget to stop by and make an absolute mess of the tourney. fuck u :) (inb4 he deletes this post)

if he does it will cause more of a shit storm

I appreciate the honesty. Is there any way the official team can fix this? Like reversing the decision?

reminder: don't make a flame war

https://gist.github.com/AustinLMayes/f2affed9d57627d20163e638b718ac5e - Rule Change

Well the damage has been done

Hopefully next tourney you guys learn from your mistakes

Thanks for clearing this mess up Tazz. The main reason Kyoal got senior because  that power hungry boy. 
ky
sandals

It seems those puredogs convinced kyoal or some officials some stuff.
in all honestly kyoal needs a demote, the tournament was decided by ultimately him. Funny enough he was the one who started this MAD house and was the one who refused to give us an answer. His power got to his head.
MAD respect for  PieZ, you did the best thing and this was not your fault.  LFT Thank you for sticking to the rule set, along with  Tazz. You cannot let this situation get off with a warning. Thank you for finally telling us. 

Why did only 1 person vote for a DQ? It makes no sense.

Although you can't fully justify the autoclicker, Zaoki is still banned. Therefore, the right action to take was to disqualify/blacklist the rest of the team, this is quite an obvious rule and I have seen it been used before.

Yet for some reason you decided to go against your own rule. Yeah you admit you fucked up, well ban them now, and take away their position as champions is what I say. Why can't you do it now? There's no reason you can't. 

Also, I still request a logical explanation as to why NewDawn were disqualified and moved outside of the top 8 when we were clearly 8th, yet somehow HeartClaw got through. Please, someone explain this to me, this doesn't make sense because we no-showed only 1 game. Thank you.

Ok

it's possible that LFT only voted for a DQ because it would benefit him as a member of Horizon (who even played in a few tournament matches), bringing in that old official bias everyone's been talking about

What i dont get is that team rocket was the only team to give a shit even though they wouldnt have win anyway.

I didn't know everyone except bulldogs, kyoal, and that lithum guy was on team rocket. huh

"Therefore, officials were unsure of what to do as PureDogs had got in their heads and they were unsure whether what had been found was an autoclicker. This was because the officials were still waiting for my confirmation on what was found, so PureDogs had time to type and make up explanations."

I am sorry but how do you not know what an AutoClicker is? Do they disguise it as a porn file? If you weren't sure why did you ban Zaoki and leave the team free running? That doesn't make any sense. If Zaoki is saying he didn't AutoClick and you aren't sure if he had an AutoClciker why the fuck is he banned? It just doesn't add up, like come on... What even is the point of banning Zaoki if you aren't sure, that is honestly the most retarded thing ever. 

And please... new officials...

I'm ignoring this drama for the most part, but just wanted to point out that you beat Allah 3.5-2.5, not 3-0.

in the finals they beat allah 3-0 what are you talking about

The vote was called because it took 5 days to even talk about it and no decision had been reached so I called a vote, as I thought they would all vote for DQ as it made sense to dq them.  I only found out about Kyoals experiment during the semi finals and it was already too late to do anything at that point.

 Kyoal did make a mistake but we all make mistakes at some point, and that's probably one questionable thing he has done amongst 1000 good things. He is very passionate about this community and never meant for it to get out of hand like it did. I'm not condoning what he did, as he should not have done it but like I said it's already too late so we'll just have to learn from our mistakes.

The vote was called because it took 5 days to even talk about it and no decision had been reached so I called a vote, as I thought they would all vote for DQ as it made sense to dq them.  I only found out about Kyoals experiment during the semi finals and it was already too late to do anything at that point.

 Kyoal did make a mistake but we all make mistakes at some point, and that's probably one questionable thing he has done amongst 1000 good things. He is very passionate about this community and never meant for it to get out of hand like it did. I'm not condoning what he did, as he should not have done it but like I said it's already too late so we'll just have to learn from our mistakes.

The vote was called because it took 5 days to even talk about it and no decision had been reached so I called a vote, as I thought they would all vote for DQ as it made sense to dq them.  I only found out about Kyoals experiment during the semi finals and it was already too late to do anything at that point.

 Kyoal did make a mistake but we all make mistakes at some point, and that's probably one questionable thing he has done amongst 1000 good things. He is very passionate about this community and never meant for it to get out of hand like it did. I'm not condoning what he did, as he should not have done it but like I said it's already too late so we'll just have to learn from our mistakes.

this is EXACTLY the problem. You cannot let little ""mistakes"" slide by. He needs to pay for it, The tournament was basically decided by his dumb idea. He broke policy and it cost the official team all this heat, and people hate that they didn't deserve.  1000 good things? The guy is inactive af, literally had 1 punishment in april. Havent seen really any good things TBH. He was inactive as a mod too.

it took 5 days to even talk about it and no decision had been reached
That's extremely concerning.

>we'll just have to learn from our mistakes.

May I ask why there's more turbulence for Avicus to run tournaments than any other Minecraft server? And if there is a good reason, why has there been a substantial mistake every tournament that the community will point out?

 You can't judge someone based off of if they log into a minecraft server or not, there are tons of people doing things behind the scenes that enable this server to stay online. I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished or that he should but you of all people should know that you aren't necessarily going to see all the good work that is being done, you only see a small fraction of it.

Every TM? I don't recall it being every TM, after Battle of eternity (2 tms ago) there started to be problems. The only other mistake i recall is the officials false banning someone in tournament 2 but I don't think there was an issue every TM. I can't talk regarding the officials but i'm sure they're trying their best to make these things run as smoothly as possible. There just has to be more thought into all these decisions and people need to think of the repercussions of their actions.

You obviously don't know how a screenshare works so please stop

toggle

sneak

at the VERY least kyoal should not be official anymore if he's gonna treat the official team like his little science lab where he tries to make something cool for daddy posighdun but instead it all blows up in his face and burns down half the house. would you ground kyoal? i would.
i mean frankly i have to congratulate him on bringing the "disorganized officials" meme to an absurd new height that no one even thought was possible. just even thinking about it makes me want to grab my computer monitor and shake it while yelling "WHAT WAS HE THINKING". i mean first of all, deciding to do a little """""experiment""""" or whatever the fuck in the middle of one of the very rare avicus TOURNAMENTS with CASH MONEY on the line, telling LITERALLY no one, and even having the fucking result of his experiment decide the winner of a very rare avicus TOURNAMENT with CASH MONEY on the line. and what new knowledge did this """"""experiment"""""" bless us with in the end? jack-diddly-squat, from what i've been able to tell, other than the fact that for future avicus tournaments we should probably network ban kyoal for the duration.  if you would seriously still let kyoal anywhere near your official team after this i would be googling "nearest brain scanning facility" because something just ain't right.

at the VERY least kyoal should not be official anymore if he's gonna treat the official team like his little science lab where he tries to make something cool for daddy posighdun but instead it all blows up in his face and burns down half the house. would you ground kyoal? i would.

That's not for me to decide. 

Also I just want to point this out, just because he did a test doesn't mean it is his fault. The other officials STILL voted for a no dq, what effect the "test" had on the others I don't know but the other officials could of easily voted for DQ but they didn't. Don't blame it on one person, it is the entire teams fault and as admins it's also our fault for allowing it to happen. We'll just have to learn and move on, and as I said what kyoal decides to do is not up to me.

it would be nice if kyoal would come down and have a nice chat with us himself but unfortunately he seems to be in hiding
and yeah, the whole official team deserves blame and i've been saying that for a while now, and some of them have stepped up, taken the blame, and faced the consequences (like our boy piez, MAD respect), but recently it seems like the majority of the blame lies with kyoal. none of this would have happened without that unnecessary vote, which kyoal started for reasons that are so absurd that i pinched myself multiple times while reading about them to make sure i wasn't dreaming. all of this is just made worse in my mind by the fact that kyoal seems to have vanished instead of maybe owning up to what he did and apologizing. instead, we've got you coming around here on his behalf to give us the whole "people make mistakes blah blah" spiel. at the end of the day, the official team needs a small major reorganization. frankly i can't believe they've gone so long without a leader, it seems like that's where a lot of problems are coming from.

I probably have no right in posting since I am not aware of the situation but I am basing this response off the original post...

Seriously, what's the big fuss about? If this guy is hacking, god damn ban him. I don't see why a vote was needed, or anyone else needed to be involved. If a senior moderator witnesses a player breaking the rules wouldn't it be plausible if he immediately punished? I mean, that's independence... right? Right?

In fact, almost every decision the officials seem to make is either revoked or heavily dramatized. Is it the influence of the administrators or is it the constant pressure of appealing to the majority? I don't know, but as Snow stated, I am having difficulties in finding an individual who is a prime leader in the official team. Actually, there shouldn't be, but instead the administrators need to be taking charge of most operations in the tournament team. There is no guidance - and therefore there is an absolute break down on one of the most fundamental business models. Why are the two teams acting seperate - pointing fingers?

I called a vote as 5 days had passed and they still hadn't reached a decisions. So I called it in order to hurry everyone up and decide what we were doing. The fuss wasn't about the player himself, as he was banned very quickly, it was more about what to do with the team the player was on and what punishment they should receive.

As for finger pointing it's both the admins and officials fault. We've already admitted that, apologised and moved on.

Then DQ the team! If the autoclicker was that game changing, his/her team had an advantage during their matches. 

But 5 days had passed? Boy oh boy, something needs to be changed.

They didn't want to DQ the team because they were unsure whether he was using an autoclicker in the tournament (so I was told), but still went ahead and banned the player in question.

Correct.

Who made the decision to put new Dawn in 9th despite Challonge stating 8th?

Probably a honest mistake?

Then why was he banned with [Tournament] in the reason? This implies that he was using it during the tournament, and the team in question should be DQ'd. Simple as that.

Then why was he banned with [Tournament] in the reason? This implies that he was using it during the tournament, and the team in question should be DQ'd. Simple as that.

Nah that just means it was found during the tournament.

That makes no sense.
If we put [Tournament] in an infraction, it means that infraction only applies to Tournaments.

In the same way that we (used to?) put [Forum] on a forum-related infraction. i.e Forum warns 
That only applied to the forums.

We don't specify where we found the infraction, we only specify which areas the infraction is valid.

Nah that just means it was found during the tournament.

Why was he banned if you weren't sure whether he used it at all?

That makes no sense.
If we put [Tournament] in an infraction, it means that infraction only applies to Tournaments.

In the same way that we (used to?) put [Forum] on a forum-related infraction. i.e Forum warns 
That only applied to the forums.

We don't specify where we found the infraction, we only specify which areas the infraction is valid.

Because there is a separate that doesn't allow you to have an autoclicker on your computer when you play, regardless if you use it or not.

Why does that exist, and where can I find that?

https://avicus.net/forums/discussions/3047937a1

Exists because you can easily edit date opened/modified on an autoclicker to allude staff, so it's better to not have them at all.

y'all arguing g about the vote result and Kyoal when literally it's clear as fuck that there shouldn't had been a vote in the first place. I don't know about the story of why zaoki was banned, but if he was banned for autoclickers and the ban states autoclickers FOUND in ss which was clearly against the rule set pure dogs should have been dqed without any questions. Also I bet if it was a smaller team like newdawn or xenarch there would never be a vote and a straight dq would have happened.

kyoal and the rest of the officials fucked up like the rest of every single avicus tournament. If you can't run them properly, don't run them at all.

What the fuck are you talking about, we were only considered a good team because of OCN. The only reason avicus considers us "big" now is because we beat allah, and the whole Zaoki shit. We had no biased in the staff team, we didn't have a single fucking member of any staff team from avicus, while the other top 4 teams did.

Thats not anything like what i said
I never said you were considered "big", i simply said that if it was some smaller unknown team or a team that isn't very good there probably would not be even a vote - a straight dq
I never said you had bias in the staff team so read again

He was banned during a tournament, for having an autoclicker found during a screenshare, as a result from alerts being set of during tournament match (correct me if I am wrong). Why wasn't the team DQ'd, as his ban is directly related to the tournament.

Can u enlighten my brain and tell me how and why zaoki got banned. I want to see ur knowledge on this topic.

it would be nice if kyoal would come down and have a nice chat with us himself but unfortunately he seems to be in hiding
and yeah, the whole official team deserves blame and i've been saying that for a while now, and some of them have stepped up, taken the blame, and faced the consequences (like our boy piez, MAD respect), but recently it seems like the majority of the blame lies with kyoal. none of this would have happened without that unnecessary vote, which kyoal started for reasons that are so absurd that i pinched myself multiple times while reading about them to make sure i wasn't dreaming. all of this is just made worse in my mind by the fact that kyoal seems to have vanished instead of maybe owning up to what he did and apologizing. instead, we've got you coming around here on his behalf to give us the whole "people make mistakes blah blah" spiel. at the end of the day, the official team needs a small major reorganization. frankly i can't believe they've gone so long without a leader, it seems like that's where a lot of problems are coming from.

Well I assume it's because there was no punishment outlined for finding an autoclicker in a screenshare, there was only one for using it (which he wasn't banned for). So we voted and the vote turned out in favour of don't dq.

Well there is, which is that you get banned. This is clearly a big loophole in the rules, as you can be autoclicking, give your team an advantage. You get caught through a screenshare and your team stays in contention to win the tournament. Not well thought out.

Edit: Did you take part in the vote?

Yes of course.

Why did you? You're a referee, and an admin should not take part in decision made by the Officials.

Admins + Officials work together. All admins and officials voted. That's just how we operate.

Since when has this been the case?

Why does it matter jesus christ without him and sli it would've been 1-5

Did robo vote?

Why does it matter jesus christ without him and sli it would've been 1-5

Admins + Officials work together. All admins and officials voted. That's just how we operate.

you are very defensive over him, I've literally seen him on the forums multiple times this week, and he could of told us he fucked up last week. He's hiding in a dumpster while all the other officials take the blame. you can keep defending your little pal, won't change anything. also, why should you have gotten a say if there was a vote or not? I don't care that you voted but you should NOT of backed up Kyoal in any of this, especially the vote.
how do you know the outcome would of been the same? as tazz said Kyoal voted no DQ to pressure the others into it, and try to see if they would follow their own rules, because he wasn't going to.

Sorry, I have been very busy with exams, with limited time to check the forums. I feel I have a lot more time to answer questions now. I am also not hiding anything.

no questions need to be answered, we want you demoted off the official team. we have gotten all the information we want. You had shown no respect to the other officials and to the teams of avicus.
yeah, now you have nothing to hide because the officials got tired of taking all the heat and finally spilled. this sound familiar? "Information regarding the decision will be released soon" that's all you could say for yourself.

no questions need to be answered, we want you demoted off the official team. we have gotten all the information we want. You had shown no respect to the other officials and to the teams of avicus.
yeah, now you have nothing to hide because the officials got tired of taking all the heat and finally spilled. this sound familiar? "Information regarding the decision will be released soon" that's all you could say for yourself.

I have information with visual evidence that I can show too. You see nothing between myself and the Officials.

I clearly said that I don't know how and why zaoki was banned in this post and my other ones if you'd read you'd know.

However it clearly states in the rules that in no matter what situation if ur team member is banned and the reason is LITERALLY "Autoclicker found in SS " 
it makes sense that would be banned and you guys would be dqed. i dont think hes sketchy niether i think he hacked in the matches he played vs us, but if an autoclicker was found in ss and that was clearly in the ruleset its clear that u guys should be dqed. 

it doesnt matter at all "how and why zaoki got banned", if the reason is "Autoclicker found in SS " u guys shouldve been dqed.

Soooo u dont know amything. GG CRISP CLEAN LOCK BOIS.

Soooo u dont know amything. GG CRISP CLEAN LOCK BOIS.

no questions need to be answered, we want you demoted off the official team. we have gotten all the information we want. You had shown no respect to the other officials and to the teams of avicus.
yeah, now you have nothing to hide because the officials got tired of taking all the heat and finally spilled. this sound familiar? "Information regarding the decision will be released soon" that's all you could say for yourself.

ok

HE'S ON THE GEAR BOIS

You just don't understand what you're talking about. You're EXTREMELY ignorant like a lot of people discussing this topic. I would suggest you to stop.

a) he probably knows more than i do in the situation, yet all i need to know is that u should have been dqed but in no surprise to anyone, the officials fucked up.

b) we get it, you and your friends are laughing at how the fuck some officials can be so stupid and you got away with it

c) Please shut the fuck up

PS. Kyoal everyone wants you demoted and you should be ashamed of your desicion. This "everything will be released soon" shit better be a bloody good excuse or the community will ask for your head

a) he probably knows more than i do in the situation, yet all i need to know is that u should have been dqed but in no surprise to anyone, the officials fucked up.

b) we get it, you and your friends are laughing at how the fuck some officials can be so stupid and you got away with it

c) Please shut the fuck up

PS. Kyoal everyone wants you demoted and you should be ashamed of your desicion. This "everything will be released soon" shit better be a bloody good excuse or the community will ask for your head

a) he probably knows more than i do in the situation, yet all i need to know is that u should have been dqed but in no surprise to anyone, the officials fucked up.

b) we get it, you and your friends are laughing at how the fuck some officials can be so stupid and you got away with it

c) Please shut the fuck up

PS. Kyoal everyone wants you demoted and you should be ashamed of your desicion. This "everything will be released soon" shit better be a bloody good excuse or the community will ask for your head

Can u enlighten my brain and tell me how and why zaoki got banned. I want to see ur knowledge on this topic.

you are very defensive over him, I've literally seen him on the forums multiple times this week, and he could of told us he fucked up last week. He's hiding in a dumpster while all the other officials take the blame. you can keep defending your little pal, won't change anything. also, why should you have gotten a say if there was a vote or not? I don't care that you voted but you should NOT of backed up Kyoal in any of this, especially the vote.
how do you know the outcome would of been the same? as tazz said Kyoal voted no DQ to pressure the others into it, and try to see if they would follow their own rules, because he wasn't going to.

Let me boi kyoal as an official and senior so I get more bias! Get out people

You just don't understand what you're talking about. You're EXTREMELY ignorant like a lot of people discussing this topic. I would suggest you to stop.

I have information with visual evidence that I can show too. You see nothing between myself and the Officials.

I have a question for you! When are we getting new officials? I don't know if this is your first tournament but it should definitely be your last. I am not saying I would be a better official, I am saying there are better refs that should have got official.

All this flaming and targeting Kyoal needs to stop. Yes, he made a mistake, don't we all? 
Discussing is fine, insulting and all that isn't.
This is a warning to everyone, if it all continues, we will not hesitate to forum ban certain individuals.

Back to a positive discussion now.

"Back to a positive discussion now."

When was this a positive discussion xD

Plz dont ban me

Well that's how I interpret it. It isn't a tournament ban so that wouldn't make any sense either.

hey since the tournament is over why instead of keep telling me that i know nothing about it - instead you tell me what i should know and what i dont know

tbh too lazy to. Im just gonna let ignorant people stay ignorant.

Well do you have to act like that now? Can't you just either explain or not write anything unless it is important? You already won the tournament so I dont think it is necessary for you to behave like that now

tbh too lazy to. Im just gonna let ignorant people stay ignorant.

If it's not a tournament ban then don't put [Tournament] in the ban reason.
That just adds unnecessary confusion.

tbh too lazy to. Im just gonna let ignorant people stay ignorant.

No lmao youre literally avoiding telling me what happened i bet you dont know it properly yourself

Instead of acting like a 5 year old, why don't you just tell people..?

Says the kid who literally is 5 lmao what

Says the kid who literally is 5 lmao what