This applies to everyone.
by
PictureFrames
November 30, 2014 at 5:11 PM UTC
Hello.
I'd like to discuss a very important topic with you all today.This involves making forum posts about a staff member's demotion. Everyone, hear me out. Being demoted is a really sensitive topic to some people. If you think of it this way, what if that player's real life isn't all that great, and Moderating was all they had. What if they had nothing. And Moderating is what kept them occupied throughout the day. What if they didn't have many friends, and becoming a staff member brought them into the world of meeting new people, and socializing. Being a staff member is really important to some people, it's not just another "job" to have to do throughout the day.
In my opinion, making a post about someone's demotion is really disrespectful. Let's put this into another scenario. Let's say one of your Facebook friends was recently fired from their job. Now they have no money, no occupation, and no way to pay their bills. Then you go off and post a new status on Facebook saying: "Did you hear that (so and so) got fired from their job? It's too bad, they were really good at what they did." Just think. Maybe that person didn't want people knowing about them losing their job. Maybe they were never planning on telling anyone. It's insensitive, and kind of rude.
So please, for the sake of another one's privacy, don't make forum posts about someone's demotion. The only person that has the right to make their demotion public is them. No one else. If they would like to share, they can share. But don't share someone else's business in public. If you'd like to know more information about a player's demotion, privately contact a member of the Sr.Staff, and we'll go from there.
Well in my opinion maybe some of the staff members should have been given a 2 week trial to improve before being demoted.
But that's besides the point, I understand what you are saying, but some people might feel comfortable knowing that people recognized them for being a good moderator...
Oh well the past is the past and we can't stay in the past too long, it's time to move forward.
I agree. Im sure the people that did, ment well, but it's just drawing more attention to them, they don't want to be reminded right after it occurs. Or at least I wouldn't.
Well in my opinion maybe some of the staff members should have been given a 2 week trial to improve before being demoted.
But that's besides the point, I understand what you are saying, but some people might feel comfortable knowing that people recognized them for being a good moderator...
Oh well the past is the past and we can't stay in the past too long, it's time to move forward.
Technically, they did get a trial. We were told a week or 2 prior to it occurring that it would happen. Everyone had time to improve, but some just didn't improve enough. It's for the best, in the end.
Technically, they did get a trial. We were told a week or 2 prior to it occurring that it would happen. Everyone had time to improve, but some just didn't improve enough. It's for the best, in the end.
It was stupid to introduce it at a time when many staff were away due to Christmas end of year exams though.
It was stupid to introduce it at a time when many staff were away due to Christmas end of year exams though.
IIRC, if you were on leave during it, it didn't have that big of a factor. If you were demoted, there was something in the past that caused it. Maybe it was inactivity prior to being on leave, or some mistakes made on forum posts, or ingame behaviour. Being on leave is fine, but if it's for a really long time, it's best to not stay as staff, since you obviously wouldn't have the time to be online.
Although a couple weeks earlier would've been alright too, this is actually a decent time. The later it is in December, the more hectic it is for the staff. Couldn't do it too late, but couldn't do it too early either. The higher ranked staff needed time to fully plan it out, and also to fully check you guys out. That, and for you guys to have plenty of time to show your potential.
IIRC, if you were on leave during it, it didn't have that big of a factor. If you were demoted, there was something in the past that caused it. Maybe it was inactivity prior to being on leave, or some mistakes made on forum posts, or ingame behaviour. Being on leave is fine, but if it's for a really long time, it's best to not stay as staff, since you obviously wouldn't have the time to be online.
Although a couple weeks earlier would've been alright too, this is actually a decent time. The later it is in December, the more hectic it is for the staff. Couldn't do it too late, but couldn't do it too early either. The higher ranked staff needed time to fully plan it out, and also to fully check you guys out. That, and for you guys to have plenty of time to show your potential.
No one should be expected to arrange their time around Avicus. I personally was not away before this week and last week as sure my exams are only coming up now. I know there were other reasons but to have inactivity as one of the reasons for demotion after stating you would be away is silly at best.
Not to mention a "lack of infractions" which clearly one would have when one is away. If I knew it was about heavy handed we are with commands I wouldn't have given people a chance and verbally warned/double checked hackers.
The entire thing smells fishy and stupid to be honest. I mean the amount we had was perfect but now the mods are halfed.
No one should be expected to arrange their time around Avicus. I personally was not away before this week and last week as sure my exams are only coming up now. I know there were other reasons but to have inactivity as one of the reasons for demotion after stating you would be away is silly at best.
Not to mention a "lack of infractions" which clearly one would have when one is away. If I knew it was about heavy handed we are with commands I wouldn't have given people a chance and verbally warned/double checked hackers.
The entire thing smells fishy and stupid to be honest. I mean the amount we had was perfect but now the mods are halfed.
If you made a thread about being away, then it shouldn't be a reason, unless it was for a ridiculous amount of time. If you were only online once in a while, and never explained why you were only on once in a while, then that's when it would be a reason for demotion. That, and not everyone spends every second of their time on here moderating, so even if you were on quite a bit, lack of moderating would also play a part. Can't expect to stay mod if you don't play the part, right?
EDIT: Saw your comment before the edit. The second bit ties in with what I've said. If you're inactive, of course you won't deal out a lot of punishments. But as said before, if you don't moderate a lot while online, you can't expect to keep the rank.
If you made a thread about being away, then it shouldn't be a reason, unless it was for a ridiculous amount of time. If you were only online once in a while, and never explained why you were only on once in a while, then that's when it would be a reason for demotion. That, and not everyone spends every second of their time on here moderating, so even if you were on quite a bit, lack of moderating would also play a part. Can't expect to stay mod if you don't play the part, right?
EDIT: Saw your comment before the edit. The second bit ties in with what I've said. If you're inactive, of course you won't deal out a lot of punishments. But as said before, if you don't moderate a lot while online, you can't expect to keep the rank.
I had posted about me being away due to exams a week ago I believe before the trial thing was even mentioned. So therefore to have it as a reason makes no sense so you can't possibly defend it.
To be honest, when I heard I was demoted it wasn't even that I was mad or annoyed over being demoted. It was more the bullshit reasons for the demotion that got me pissed. Even when I confronted flu about them, he didn't have a leg to stand on and couldnt even defend them since they are bullshit and even he said there was no evidence given to support the reasons. So you really cannot defend it.
Absolutely, 100% agree, sont even have to add anything, you explained it perfectly. Its unthoughtful, unintelligent and disrespectful, no matter what the excuse is. Thanks for posting this, i hope this opened some peoples eyes :)
No one should be expected to arrange their time around Avicus. I personally was not away before this week and last week as sure my exams are only coming up now. I know there were other reasons but to have inactivity as one of the reasons for demotion after stating you would be away is silly at best.
Not to mention a "lack of infractions" which clearly one would have when one is away. If I knew it was about heavy handed we are with commands I wouldn't have given people a chance and verbally warned/double checked hackers.
The entire thing smells fishy and stupid to be honest. I mean the amount we had was perfect but now the mods are halfed.
"Lack of infractions" I check the infractions page daily, and I've seen very few infractions dealt by you...
@OP Thank you for posting this thread, it was really needed.
"Lack of infractions" I check the infractions page daily, and I've seen very few infractions dealt by you...
@OP Thank you for posting this thread, it was really needed.
If the mentality still stands (current staff feel free to correct me), senior staff are normally not required to be so much a moderator of the server but rather maintainers and manages of the server.
I agree completely with what you are saying it is just rude and disrespectful to the people that you may have hurt very seriously just by saying a couple of little words.
Give the people the knowledge of all promotions and demotions every month and we'll be happy. This isn't a "privacy" issue; we all know when someones been demoted because of TS3 or just looking at the staff every so often. Making a post about each individual one is over the top; as it's more personal.
It becomes a bigger thing because to get information we all have to sneak around asking.
A update on demotion and promotions with reasons would be great tho.
Give the people the knowledge of all promotions and demotions every month and we'll be happy. This isn't a "privacy" issue; we all know when someones been demoted because of TS3 or just looking at the staff every so often. Making a post about each individual one is over the top; as it's more personal.
It becomes a bigger thing because to get information we all have to sneak around asking.
A update on demotion and promotions with reasons would be great tho.
"A update on demotion and promotions with reasons would be great tho.
"
You essentially condradicted yourself with that statement. We don't do this for privacy reasons; however we do have a promotion and demotion log (STAFF ONLY).
Regardless, you can never really cease gossip going on about staff behind closed doors. You can, though, stop it from happening on the forums at the very least..
I personally don't like those kind of topics made, even though I have made them in the past, mainly because of curiosity.
"A update on demotion and promotions with reasons would be great tho.
"
You essentially condradicted yourself with that statement. We don't do this for privacy reasons; however we do have a promotion and demotion log (STAFF ONLY).
Fluey, what was I "essentially" contradicting? .-.
If the log is kept for staff only then why is it not released? ..for privacy reasons?
Jake's post spoke about the fact that for privacy reasons we shouldn't make the post about other members. Wouldn't we use the same logic if it was about the logs?
Fluey, what was I "essentially" contradicting? .-.
If the log is kept for staff only then why is it not released? ..for privacy reasons?
Jake's post spoke about the fact that for privacy reasons we shouldn't make the post about other members. Wouldn't we use the same logic if it was about the logs?
The only reason we keep a log of the demotions is so we can keep a record of who has contributed to the server or not. It's private to the staff only, we aren't making it public.
If the mentality still stands (current staff feel free to correct me), senior staff are normally not required to be so much a moderator of the server but rather maintainers and manages of the server.
And yes Howsie, you're completely correct. Once promoted to a member of the Senior Staff, obviously moderation is important. But you now have the responsibilities of taking care of the support emails, you take part in community based decisions, etc. So you basically help manage the server, along with moderating it as well.
The only reason we keep a log of the demotions is so we can keep a record of who has contributed to the server or not. It's private to the staff only, we aren't making it public.
If it's only for keeping record of it; why show the staff? xD
"A update on demotion and promotions with reasons would be great tho.
"
You essentially condradicted yourself with that statement. We don't do this for privacy reasons; however we do have a promotion and demotion log (STAFF ONLY).
Fluey, what was I "essentially" contradicting? .-.
If the log is kept for staff only then why is it not released? ..for privacy reasons?
Jake's post spoke about the fact that for privacy reasons we shouldn't make the post about other members. Wouldn't we use the same logic if it was about the logs?
If the log is kept for staff only then why is it not released?
If the log is kept for staff only then why is it not released?
Do you know what "Staff only" means?
Uhm, to elaborate... What I'm saying is, if the staff get to see it, why can't everyone else. If you read it in context I hope it'll make more sense, unless of course I was high when I wrote that xD
Uhm, to elaborate... What I'm saying is, if the staff get to see it, why can't everyone else. If you read it in context I hope it'll make more sense, unless of course I was high when I wrote that xD
"Give the people the knowledge of all promotions and demotions every month and we'll be happy. This isn't a "privacy" issue; we all know when someones been demoted because of TS3 or just looking at the staff every so often. Making a post about each individual one is over the top; as it's more personal."
"Give the people the knowledge of all promotions and demotions every month and we'll be happy. This isn't a "privacy" issue; we all know when someones been demoted because of TS3 or just looking at the staff every so often. Making a post about each individual one is over the top; as it's more personal."
But, it's no secret that the demoted staff have been demoted.
Everyone finds out anyway; it just creates less of a buzz if you do it publically instead of everyone "gossiping" about it.
If you were demoted for "rudeness, and immaturity", would you want the public to know? If you want to state the reasons, you would create the thread informing players.
If you were demoted for "rudeness, and immaturity", would you want the public to know? If you want to state the reasons, you would create the thread informing players.
Well, I'll admit that is a valid point.
As a counter; would you actually tell the demoted person that he/she was rude and immature? Point taken, but just logs where we can see the promotions and demotions for staff wouldn't be intruding privacy and would stop people from making these posts in the future as this post will probably fade into the hundreds of pages of discussions.
As a counter; would you actually tell the demoted person that he/she was rude and immature? Point taken, but just logs where we can see the promotions and demotions for staff wouldn't be intruding privacy and would stop people from making these posts in the future as this post will probably fade into the hundreds of pages of discussions.
I disagree. I think that if the public have access to who was demoted, it would create more of these topics because more people would be rude to the recently demoted Moderator as a result of constantly having this information.
As a counter; would you actually tell the demoted person that he/she was rude and immature? Point taken, but just logs where we can see the promotions and demotions for staff wouldn't be intruding privacy and would stop people from making these posts in the future as this post will probably fade into the hundreds of pages of discussions.
It doesn't matter whether you know who was demoted or not. One way or another people are going to find out. But there's really no reason for it to be announced on a public forum where anyone can see it. Especially the reasoning for the demotion... That can be a sensitive topic to a player too. All I'm trying to do is put the former staff member's privacy first, because it can be something they don't want others knowing about.
And it's just like the example I brought up earlier about getting fired from a job. One way or another, people are going to find out. However it's up to them, whether he/she decides to inform people why.
If you were demoted for "rudeness, and immaturity", would you want the public to know? If you want to state the reasons, you would create the thread informing players.
Well done Jake! This has been needed for a while :)
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