Islam QA by 1BJ July 27, 2016 at 8:07 PM UTC
As a (revert) Muslim who studied Islam (Quran without Hadith btw) I will answer questions about the meanings of the Quran, the moral behind it and science (written in the Quran).I see it as my task since Islam in general is getting lots of negative attention.
notes:
I don't know everything since I am a human as well, but I will try to learn about the matter/verse and provide an answer.
I interpret and translate the Quran by using the names of Allah/God (the most merciful, the beneficent etc) and reasoning.
I got a 34 - 38 hour work week and won't be able to answer directly
Also I dont want this to make a which religion (or atheism) is the best thread since it isn't part of QA
Porkyyy July 27, 2016 at 8:07 PM UTC
where are you from?1BJ July 27, 2016 at 8:07 PM UTC
where are you from?
KroestV2 July 27, 2016 at 9:07 PM UTC
Is it allowed to use violence when converting non believers to muslim?1BJ July 27, 2016 at 9:07 PM UTC
Is it allowed to use violence when converting non believers to muslim?
2:256) There is no compulsion in religion; the proper way has been made clear from the wrong way. Whoever rejects the transgressors, and acknowledges God, has grasped the firm branch that will never break. God is Hearer, Knower.
7:203) Since you do not bring them a sign, they say, "If only you had brought one." Say, "I only follow what is inspired to me from my Lord. These are enlightenments from your Lord, a guide and a mercy to a people who acknowledge."
Muhammed only followed the Quran and the Quran states that there shouldn't be compulsion in religion.
16:125) Invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and good advice, and argue with them in the best possible manner. Your Lord is fully aware of who is misguided from His path, and He is fully aware of the guided ones.
KroestV2 July 27, 2016 at 9:07 PM UTC
Why should i be muslim and not a christian?Juanooo July 27, 2016 at 9:07 PM UTC
Why do muslims kill people (ISIS) cause of Allah?p.s: Is this Noah? wtf
AlvaroMorata July 27, 2016 at 10:07 PM UTC
Why do muslims kill people (ISIS) cause of Allah?
p.s: Is this Noah? wtf
1BJ July 27, 2016 at 10:07 PM UTC
Why should i be muslim and not a christian?
4:136) O you who acknowledge; acknowledge God and His messenger, and the books which was sent down to His messenger, and the book that was sent before.
A real Muslim has to believe in the books of God before the Quran. Some teachings of the bible may contradict other teaching of the bible or the Quran.
I believe in each teaching of the bible not contradicting the Quran, science or another teaching of the bible (which goes more in line with the Quran). This makes me as a Muslim a Christian as well.
There for we are not ordered to choose between being a Christian or a Muslim. We are ordered to use reasoning and give a book priority.
killerbye22 July 27, 2016 at 10:07 PM UTC
Is it allowed for Muslims to be Athiests?Why did you start believing?
1BJ July 27, 2016 at 10:07 PM UTC
Why do muslims kill people (ISIS) cause of Allah?
p.s: Is this Noah? wtf
ISIS thinks that all (or most) of these baseless, violent and medieval stories tells us the truth about how Muhammed lived and they try to live the way Muhammed lived according to the stories.
31:6) Among the people, there are those who accept baseless hadiths to mislead from the path of God without knowledge, and they take it as entertainment. These will have a humiliating retribution.
Or8 July 27, 2016 at 10:07 PM UTC
Why do muslims kill people (ISIS) cause of Allah?
p.s: Is this Noah? wtf
So ISIS got to the non-muslim point when it started hurting people to convert to islam...
Or8 July 27, 2016 at 10:07 PM UTC
To understand ISIS you have to understand what hadiths are. Hadiths are medieval story's about the life of Muhammed. These story's are compiled by Persians (which were the first enemies of Islam) and provides brutal content contradicting the only teachings Muhammed followed, those which were revealed to him.
ISIS thinks that all (or most) of these baseless, violent and medieval stories tells us the truth about how Muhammed lived and they try to live the way Muhammed lived according to the stories.
31:6) Among the people, there are those who accept baseless hadiths to mislead from the path of God without knowledge, and they take it as entertainment. These will have a humiliating retribution.
Magikarp July 28, 2016 at 12:07 AM UTC
Ayy noah! <br>How do u separate the hadith and the quran when without the hadith we wouldn't know how to pray or how to go to hajj for example.?<br>
Also, does islam allow you to believe in teachings of the bible if it doesnt contradict the teachings of the quran? 0,0
gobernment July 28, 2016 at 12:07 AM UTC
Do you see LGBTQ in Islam being morally and socially acceptable? Or rather, do you think the current prejudices will change in Islam to prevent discrimination against LGBTQ soon? I know a majority of muslims find it okay/tolerate it in my district, but I'm curious to know your stance on it.Or, I could be uneducated about this topic. If you could tell me some more information about LGBTQ in Islam, I'd be happy to know. Hopefully it's not a touchy subject, but it's a gray area to me (I don't know much about it other than the laws in the Middle East).
Magikarp July 28, 2016 at 12:07 AM UTC
Do you see LGBTQ in Islam being morally and socially acceptable? Or rather, do you think the current prejudices will change in Islam to prevent discrimination against LGBTQ soon? I know a majority of muslims find it okay/tolerate it in my district, but I'm curious to know your stance on it.
Or, I could be uneducated about this topic. If you could tell me some more information about LGBTQ in Islam, I'd be happy to know. Hopefully it's not a touchy subject, but it's a gray area to me (I don't know much about it other than the laws in the Middle East).
gobernment July 28, 2016 at 12:07 AM UTC
Here you go https://youtu.be/P06doDhXPvI
- 'Homosexuality is a part of a culture we don't like'
- 'Holds views that him and 75% of the world deems sinful'
- 'We, the Muslims do not like the action'
- 'It is the orthodox islamic belief (prophetic traditions, islamic scholars)'
- 'But, I can respect homosexual individuals'
Judging off of a comment as well, it seems he also says that being gay is a choice (though I didn't hear that myself, I might check out more of the video later).
Judging off of a comment as well, it seems he also says that being gay is a choice (though I didn't hear that myself, I might check out more of the video later).
JUBBINATOR July 28, 2016 at 12:07 AM UTC
What sect of Islam are you ascribing your answers to? Have you had schooling/education or are you speaking from your own research and readings? Whose translations are you using, and are they controversial?I'm not trying to dispute your faith/answers, I'm just trying to make sure people fully know from whom and from where these answers are coming from.
1BJ July 28, 2016 at 4:07 AM UTC
Ayy noah! <br>
How do u separate the hadith and the quran when without the hadith we wouldn't know how to pray or how to go to hajj for example.?<br>
Also, does islam allow you to believe in teachings of the bible if it doesnt contradict the teachings of the quran? 0,0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-RCCT8_4WI
You can perform a perfect prayer reading the Quran alone well you can't based on the madhabs. They all have different small rules about the prayer.
1BJ July 28, 2016 at 4:07 AM UTC
What sect of Islam are you ascribing your answers to? Have you had schooling/education or are you speaking from your own research and readings? Whose translations are you using, and are they controversial?
I'm not trying to dispute your faith/answers, I'm just trying to make sure people fully know from whom and from where these answers are coming from.
6:159) Those who divide themselves into sects do not belong with you. Their judgment rests with GOD, then He will inform them of everything they had done.
30:31) You shall submit to Him, reverence Him, observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), and - whatever you do - do not ever fall into idol worship.
30:32) (Do not fall in idol worship,) like those who divide their religion into sects; each party rejoicing with what they have.
42:14) Ironically, they broke up into sects only after the knowledge had come to them, due to jealousy and resentment among themselves. If it were not for a predetermined decision from your Lord to respite them for a definite interim, they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, the later generations who inherited the scripture are full of doubts.
It is impossible to devide in sects if you only follow one book, the Quran.
77:50) So in which hadith, other than this (Quran), do they believe?
I invested around 300 hours this year alone to understand the Quran, read both Quran only Qurans as well as Qurans translated by Sunni/Shia muslims and tried to translate some by myself to get new perspectives on aya's.
I will write an answer on homosexuality later, I actually researched it this week but need to go to work now
ICHlBAN July 28, 2016 at 9:07 AM UTC
what are the advantages and disadvantages of being a muslim compared to being christian or catholic? and how does it affect the view of each side towards their own and among other religions?what is the story behind praying facing east/mecca and how it came to be?
(im kinda asking this on a whim but ill be really honest i have 0 ideas towards the topic/thread so dont hate me pls :0 nor do i want to offend any muslims out there because i dont agree with the idea that "muslims are terrorist" or "if you're muslim, you only bring terror to the world" or whatever many people out there think)
1BJ July 28, 2016 at 1:07 PM UTC
Do you see LGBTQ in Islam being morally and socially acceptable? Or rather, do you think the current prejudices will change in Islam to prevent discrimination against LGBTQ soon? I know a majority of muslims find it okay/tolerate it in my district, but I'm curious to know your stance on it.
Or, I could be uneducated about this topic. If you could tell me some more information about LGBTQ in Islam, I'd be happy to know. Hopefully it's not a touchy subject, but it's a gray area to me (I don't know much about it other than the laws in the Middle East).
The Quran is revealed to the whole of mankind and not only to not LGBT.
Most Muslims will say that it is prohibited to be/act gay by the Quran refering to the story of Lut.
Another Quran only Muslim showed me this link(https://quranistvoices.wordpress.com/2011/04/29/homosexuality-and-the-people-of-lut/). I share the same opinion on this matter and don't think it is prohibited to be gay since it would contradict with 2:185.
A big group of persian man was gay. History shows us the people compiling the stories about Muhammed killing gays were persian and following the Zoroastrian faith.
I think that these stories are made up to keep the homosexuals at Zoroastronism.
SpicyAF July 28, 2016 at 1:07 PM UTC
what does 'ALLAHU AKBAR' mean exactly?1BJ July 28, 2016 at 2:07 PM UTC
Is it allowed for Muslims to be Athiests?
Why did you start believing?
I read lots of books/articles about the Quran telling us the story of mankind without errors (from big bang to the end of our evolution as homosapiens). After I researched it and tried to debunk it I became a Muslim :)
AlvaroMorata July 28, 2016 at 2:07 PM UTC
what does 'ALLAHU AKBAR' mean exactly?
DaFrozenBlaze July 28, 2016 at 2:07 PM UTC
Why do people relate Allahu Akbar to Muslims and terrorists? At least that's how my friends use it. Isn't it just God is Great in Arabic or something?Iron July 28, 2016 at 4:07 PM UTC
Why do people relate Allahu Akbar to Muslims and terrorists? At least that's how my friends use it. Isn't it just God is Great in Arabic or something?
DaFrozenBlaze July 28, 2016 at 4:07 PM UTC
Its an Islamic saying. Also, it means Allah is greater..
JoeVC July 28, 2016 at 7:07 PM UTC
Okay can you explain to me the sunni/shia divide and why its taken so seriously?shahmi July 29, 2016 at 3:07 AM UTC
You can't be a Muslim and an Atheist at the same time.
I read lots of books/articles about the Quran telling us the story of mankind without errors (from big bang to the end of our evolution as homosapiens). After I researched it and tried to debunk it I became a Muslim :)
I would like to say mashallah you know so much about our religion it makes feel bad that I don't know as much as you!
But I would like to ask are you studying all of this somewhere or are trying to be a Mufti or a scholar or something?
Ir are you just really interested in our religion.
DaFrozenBlaze July 29, 2016 at 3:07 AM UTC
Salam,
I would like to say mashallah you know so much about our religion it makes feel bad that I don't know as much as you!
But I would like to ask are you studying all of this somewhere or are trying to be a Mufti or a scholar or something?
Ir are you just really interested in our religion.
BoldAndBrash July 29, 2016 at 12:07 PM UTC
Its an Islamic saying. Also, it means Allah is greater..
ref July 29, 2016 at 2:07 PM UTC
what does 'ALLAHU AKBAR' mean exactly?
Crimson_Aught July 29, 2016 at 2:07 PM UTC
Allahu Akbar means Allah is the Greatest
ref July 29, 2016 at 2:07 PM UTC
Akbar means greatIndicado July 29, 2016 at 4:07 PM UTC
Akbar means great
Myworld6 July 29, 2016 at 10:07 PM UTC
What does Islam say about Deists (people who believe in a god due to scientific and cosmological evidence but don't believe in a specific religion)? Would they be treated as believers or heretics? I'm a Deist, so I'm curious what Muslims think about us, as I already know what Jews and Christians think of us.Why is FGM (Female Genital Mutilation) a practice in the Middle Eastern branches of Islam? Shouldn't it be considered haram as it involves harming the woman?
Myworld6 July 29, 2016 at 10:07 PM UTC
Why do people relate Allahu Akbar to Muslims and terrorists? At least that's how my friends use it. Isn't it just God is Great in Arabic or something?
I don't think it has a literal translation in English (just as French and German don't have), but it roughly translates to "God is great" or "God is the greatest".
MerlinMaster July 30, 2016 at 3:07 AM UTC
Why does this man have a flower pillow?
And who is this?
Why is he smiling?
1BJ July 30, 2016 at 8:07 AM UTC
what are the advantages and disadvantages of being a muslim compared to being christian or catholic? and how does it affect the view of each side towards their own and among other religions?
what is the story behind praying facing east/mecca and how it came to be?
(im kinda asking this on a whim but ill be really honest i have 0 ideas towards the topic/thread so dont hate me pls :0 nor do i want to offend any muslims out there because i dont agree with the idea that "muslims are terrorist" or "if you're muslim, you only bring terror to the world" or whatever many people out there think)
I don't know the disadvantages next to people judging me by my faith.
1BJ July 30, 2016 at 9:07 AM UTC
Okay can you explain to me the sunni/shia divide and why its taken so seriously?
Others believe Abu Bakr (Sahabi) to be listened to.
1BJ July 30, 2016 at 9:07 AM UTC
Salam,
I would like to say mashallah you know so much about our religion it makes feel bad that I don't know as much as you!
But I would like to ask are you studying all of this somewhere or are trying to be a Mufti or a scholar or something?
Ir are you just really interested in our religion.
I'm studying the Quran because I believe it to be the word of god. I study it by myself with some help of people online at Quranist forums. I would love to start a Quran alone masjid somewhen. But till then I will keep studying
1BJ July 30, 2016 at 11:07 AM UTC
What does Islam say about Deists (people who believe in a god due to scientific and cosmological evidence but don't believe in a specific religion)? Would they be treated as believers or heretics? I'm a Deist, so I'm curious what Muslims think about us, as I already know what Jews and Christians think of us.
Why is FGM (Female Genital Mutilation) a practice in the Middle Eastern branches of Islam? Shouldn't it be considered haram as it involves harming the woman?
21.30) Did those who reject not see that the heavens and the earth were one mass and We tore them apart?
Quran 41.11) Then He settled to the heaven, while it was still gas, and He said to it, and to the earth: "Come willingly or unwillingly." They said, "We come willingly."
Expansion
51.47) We constructed the universe with might, and We are expanding it.
Singularity
21.104) On the day when We roll up the heavens like a scroll of books is rolled up. As We initiated the first creation, so shall We return it. It is a promise of Ours that We will do this.
Big Bang 2
14.48) The day the earth is replaced with another earth, as are the heavens, and they will appear before God, the One, the Irresistible.
36.81) Is not the One who created the heavens and the earth able to create the like of them? Yes indeed; He is the Creator, the Knowledgeable.
The word eternal used to describe hellfire can also be used for something very long (in time) which goes along with one of Allahs names, the Merciful. It also says that the fire "mounts directly at the hearts" being a situation unhappy for the soul.
104:6) It is the fire of Allah , [eternally] fueled,
104:7) Which mounts directed at the hearts.
My conclusion: hellfire is not eternal but a healer for the soul, every Big Bang creates new tests/earths which gives you endless tests till you reach salvation. This is the only way verse 2:62 and 5:69 aren't in contradiction with other verses in the Quran.
2:62) Surely those who acknowledge, and those who are Jewish, and the Nazarenes, and those who follow other religions, any one of them who acknowledge God and the Last day, and do reform, they will have their reward with their Lord, with no fear over them, nor will they grieve.
5:69) Those who acknowledge, those who are Jewish, those who are the followers of other religions, and the Nazarenes… Whoever acknowledges God and the Last day and does good works, then they will have nothing to fear nor will they grieve.
I believe that anyone will reach salvation but I don't know when. Allah knows best.
Or8 July 31, 2016 at 11:07 PM UTC
Do you see LGBTQ in Islam being morally and socially acceptable? Or rather, do you think the current prejudices will change in Islam to prevent discrimination against LGBTQ soon? I know a majority of muslims find it okay/tolerate it in my district, but I'm curious to know your stance on it.
Or, I could be uneducated about this topic. If you could tell me some more information about LGBTQ in Islam, I'd be happy to know. Hopefully it's not a touchy subject, but it's a gray area to me (I don't know much about it other than the laws in the Middle East).
Ik some people that converted to Islam because of this, there are no records showing change. If humans tell other humans how to live their lives its just not right because there will be an influence. Besides its not them who humans are praying for its god or Allah in Islam.
I hope this clears up some stuff for you : >
Or8 July 31, 2016 at 11:07 PM UTC
Big Bang 1
21.30) Did those who reject not see that the heavens and the earth were one mass and We tore them apart?
Quran 41.11) Then He settled to the heaven, while it was still gas, and He said to it, and to the earth: "Come willingly or unwillingly." They said, "We come willingly."
Expansion
51.47) We constructed the universe with might, and We are expanding it.
Singularity
21.104) On the day when We roll up the heavens like a scroll of books is rolled up. As We initiated the first creation, so shall We return it. It is a promise of Ours that We will do this.
Big Bang 2
14.48) The day the earth is replaced with another earth, as are the heavens, and they will appear before God, the One, the Irresistible.
36.81) Is not the One who created the heavens and the earth able to create the like of them? Yes indeed; He is the Creator, the Knowledgeable.
The word eternal used to describe hellfire can also be used for something very long (in time) which goes along with one of Allahs names, the Merciful. It also says that the fire "mounts directly at the hearts" being a situation unhappy for the soul.
104:6) It is the fire of Allah , [eternally] fueled,
104:7) Which mounts directed at the hearts.
My conclusion: hellfire is not eternal but a healer for the soul, every Big Bang creates new tests/earths which gives you endless tests till you reach salvation. This is the only way verse 2:62 and 5:69 aren't in contradiction with other verses in the Quran.
2:62) Surely those who acknowledge, and those who are Jewish, and the Nazarenes, and those who follow other religions, any one of them who acknowledge God and the Last day, and do reform, they will have their reward with their Lord, with no fear over them, nor will they grieve.
5:69) Those who acknowledge, those who are Jewish, those who are the followers of other religions, and the Nazarenes… Whoever acknowledges God and the Last day and does good works, then they will have nothing to fear nor will they grieve.
I believe that anyone will reach salvation but I don't know when. Allah knows best.
>_<
PhencyclidineHcl August 5, 2016 at 5:08 AM UTC
All i got from this fragmented collection Of false interpretations Was that you live a life of denial of the cold facts of Old Abrahamic Literature.Zintenka August 5, 2016 at 6:08 AM UTC
All i got from this fragmented collection Of false interpretations Was that you live a life of denial of the cold facts of Old Abrahamic Literature.
PhencyclidineHcl August 5, 2016 at 8:08 AM UTC
Elaborate, or you'll be seen as possibly a troll or a rude person.
PhencyclidineHcl August 5, 2016 at 8:08 AM UTC
Which is typical of anybody In a dying group of ideas who cant accept constructive criticism to their outdated Negative Beliefs.1BJ August 5, 2016 at 3:08 PM UTC
Which is typical of anybody In a dying group of ideas who cant accept constructive criticism to their outdated Negative Beliefs.
Fulgrim_III August 5, 2016 at 8:08 PM UTC
Hello 1BJ, I only speak English unfortunately so I know I will not be able to fully experience the Quran as it was meant to be read, but do you have any recommendations when it comes to translated Islamic texts that i can learn from? I am a non believer though I absolutely love the Abrahamic religions, yet I have noticed that English translations of the Quran and related documents seem to vary widely in quality and accuracy.1BJ August 5, 2016 at 9:08 PM UTC
Hello 1BJ, I only speak English unfortunately so I know I will not be able to fully experience the Quran as it was meant to be read, but do you have any recommendations when it comes to translated Islamic texts that i can learn from? I am a non believer though I absolutely love the Abrahamic religions, yet I have noticed that English translations of the Quran and related documents seem to vary widely in quality and accuracy.
The best translations are Quranist translations. Even populair sunni schoolars and sites thinks it is the most reliable. Why do I use Rashad Khalifa's translation of the Noble Quran on the site?
This is Rashad Khalifa’s Quran:
http://www.quranalone.com/media/quran-english.pdf
My favorite:
http://www.studyquran.org/resources/Quran_Reformist_Translation.pdf
The one below is written by Edip Yuksel and I haven’t seen a better translation yet. This translation is basically the improved translation of the Quran by Rashad.
Note that the first 39 pages are about bad translations by big Quran translators including Sahih International
Fulgrim_III August 5, 2016 at 10:08 PM UTC
Thank you so much! The only material I have been able to study has been books that I have just FOUND with no guidance our outside opinions to help me. I'll check these out.PhencyclidineHcl August 6, 2016 at 12:08 AM UTC
The Quran asks everyone to be critical. Everything you are saying is according to you own opinion and not threw facts.
1BJ August 6, 2016 at 6:08 AM UTC
So then What makes your religion which specifically states that pagans/homosexuals/non believers should be killed (the list goes on) any more right than the Ancient Roman Religion?
IS does it because they read medival story made up by persians.
I already showed that the Quran doesn't say the people of Lut were homosexuals.
Zintenka August 6, 2016 at 7:08 AM UTC
Which is typical of anybody In a dying group of ideas who cant accept constructive criticism to their outdated Negative Beliefs.
The same applies to Christianity and many other religions, you may or may not be an Athiest but if you are, so am I.
I'm just decent enough to not go on and say something as reactionary as this. This is a Q and A, not one of those cringey roasts. And you decided to try to roast on a serious topic.
If you expected to be taken seriously with your attitude then perhaps YOUR beliefs and the way YOU were taught is outdated.
This is what I'd expect a bigot or a really ignorant person to say.
PhencyclidineHcl August 8, 2016 at 3:08 AM UTC
So you literally came on this thread just to incite some flame? This is an infraction in and of itself.
The same applies to Christianity and many other religions, you may or may not be an Athiest but if you are, so am I.
I'm just decent enough to not go on and say something as reactionary as this. This is a Q and A, not one of those cringey roasts. And you decided to try to roast on a serious topic.
If you expected to be taken seriously with your attitude then perhaps YOUR beliefs and the way YOU were taught is outdated.
This is what I'd expect a bigot or a really ignorant person to say.
PhencyclidineHcl August 8, 2016 at 3:08 AM UTC
So you literally came on this thread just to incite some flame? This is an infraction in and of itself.
The same applies to Christianity and many other religions, you may or may not be an Athiest but if you are, so am I.
I'm just decent enough to not go on and say something as reactionary as this. This is a Q and A, not one of those cringey roasts. And you decided to try to roast on a serious topic.
If you expected to be taken seriously with your attitude then perhaps YOUR beliefs and the way YOU were taught is outdated.
This is what I'd expect a bigot or a really ignorant person to say.
Zintenka August 8, 2016 at 8:08 AM UTC
Look man as I said before, I could honestly care less about whatever false interpretations (as a response to my answers) or personal remarks as a response to what I clearly said. This thread brought the topic up of ISLAM and homosexuality specifically NOT CHRISTIANITY, therefore I don't even know why you would even go there with me with the bs. So you can take your BS apologetics somewhere else. And if answering questions truthfully incites ignorant irrational people to behave irrational, then that is not my problem And I DON'T CARE. The world Is a crazy place, No need to be dishonest with certain issues concerning our planet, as It only makes things worse...
Right, because this is obviously a question and totally not a direct insult to a person's way of life. This can definitely incite some anger in a person and you must be a really dense and calloused person if you cannot see the wrongness in which you did upon approaching this thread.
I'm not saying that you can't ask your questions, I'm just requesting that you don't be a dick about it. Alright fam?
"This thread brought the topic up of ISLAM and homosexuality specifically NOT CHRISTIANITY, therefore I don't even know why you would even go there with me with the bs."
I brought it up to state a point in case you were Christian, if you were then you'd be a hypocrite to be honest and it would show me that your mouth runs faster than your mind.
"So you can take your BS apologetics somewhere else. And if answering questions truthfully incites ignorant irrational people to behave irrational, then that is not my problem And I DON'T CARE."
"Apologetics" really? We're using terminology that uneducated, rude people would use? Oh my gosh... UGH! *Facepalm* The cringe... I love people who things like these... "Political Correctness", "Muslim Apologist".
Nice. Nice. Nice... So you want me to be a "Politically Incorrect - Unapologetic" idiot who doesn't know what goes on around the world besides the area around him and say all sorts of things that would make even the devil blush?
Right, not happening. I'm not "Apologetic" and neither am I "PC". I'm just a guy who has common human friggin' decency and knows how to treat others respect.
Treat others the way you wish to be treated. They usually teach this in uh... Elementary School..? Yeah.
You wouldn't want someone to come onto your thread and out of nowhere say that your living a life of denial. What is wrong with you, man? Seriously, like what is your problem?
"The world Is a crazy place, No need to be dishonest with certain issues concerning our planet, as It only makes things worse..."
*Scoffs* Of course I know that the world is crazy place, but to blame the certain issues on a general group of people is insanity. ESPECIALLY, when that group of people are primary casualties OF the supposed "True Ones".
I am more likely to be shot, raped or stabbed by a crazy neighbor or a drunk guy with a gun than a group who is thousands of kilometers across a large body of water and a continent.
Yes, the way things are is very bad right now. But to blame it on a whole religion is stupid considering that the TRUE instigator was the "COLD WAR!".
Soviet-Afghan war, US training rebel groups - specifically the Mujahadeen - Some time passes and the US is still meddling in affairs not of their own.
Then BAM. This pointless, stupid and bloody conflict happens for practically my whole life. 15 years of war when it could've been avoided if certain countries weren't so damn stupid. I can't go a day without hearing people like you who use all this stupid terminology to justify being an asshole to others. It is friggin' annoying.
PhencyclidineHcl August 8, 2016 at 9:08 PM UTC
So Saudi Arabia's laws are also a result of the Cold War as well as the Survey Which stated that 71% of Egyptians support the death penalty for apostasy? Which other religion goes at war with other religious groups to such an extent today?PhencyclidineHcl August 8, 2016 at 9:08 PM UTC
"All i got from this fragmented collection Of false interpretations Was that you live a life of denial of the cold facts of Old Abrahamic Literature."
Right, because this is obviously a question and totally not a direct insult to a person's way of life. This can definitely incite some anger in a person and you must be a really dense and calloused person if you cannot see the wrongness in which you did upon approaching this thread.
I'm not saying that you can't ask your questions, I'm just requesting that you don't be a dick about it. Alright fam?
"This thread brought the topic up of ISLAM and homosexuality specifically NOT CHRISTIANITY, therefore I don't even know why you would even go there with me with the bs."
I brought it up to state a point in case you were Christian, if you were then you'd be a hypocrite to be honest and it would show me that your mouth runs faster than your mind.
"So you can take your BS apologetics somewhere else. And if answering questions truthfully incites ignorant irrational people to behave irrational, then that is not my problem And I DON'T CARE."
"Apologetics" really? We're using terminology that uneducated, rude people would use? Oh my gosh... UGH! *Facepalm* The cringe... I love people who things like these... "Political Correctness", "Muslim Apologist".
Nice. Nice. Nice... So you want me to be a "Politically Incorrect - Unapologetic" idiot who doesn't know what goes on around the world besides the area around him and say all sorts of things that would make even the devil blush?
Right, not happening. I'm not "Apologetic" and neither am I "PC". I'm just a guy who has common human friggin' decency and knows how to treat others respect.
Treat others the way you wish to be treated. They usually teach this in uh... Elementary School..? Yeah.
You wouldn't want someone to come onto your thread and out of nowhere say that your living a life of denial. What is wrong with you, man? Seriously, like what is your problem?
"The world Is a crazy place, No need to be dishonest with certain issues concerning our planet, as It only makes things worse..."
*Scoffs* Of course I know that the world is crazy place, but to blame the certain issues on a general group of people is insanity. ESPECIALLY, when that group of people are primary casualties OF the supposed "True Ones".
I am more likely to be shot, raped or stabbed by a crazy neighbor or a drunk guy with a gun than a group who is thousands of kilometers across a large body of water and a continent.
Yes, the way things are is very bad right now. But to blame it on a whole religion is stupid considering that the TRUE instigator was the "COLD WAR!".
Soviet-Afghan war, US training rebel groups - specifically the Mujahadeen - Some time passes and the US is still meddling in affairs not of their own.
Then BAM. This pointless, stupid and bloody conflict happens for practically my whole life. 15 years of war when it could've been avoided if certain countries weren't so damn stupid. I can't go a day without hearing people like you who use all this stupid terminology to justify being an asshole to others. It is friggin' annoying.
Zintenka August 9, 2016 at 3:08 PM UTC
So Saudi Arabia's laws are also a result of the Cold War as well as the Survey Which stated that 71% of Egyptians support the death penalty for apostasy? Which other religion goes at war with other religious groups to such an extent today?
I will admit that those Middle Eastern countries do have a special brand of stupid though, but not because of the religion. It's because of people taking the bad parts of the religion and capitalizing on that.
Turkey is a good example of an Islamic-dominated country that is using Secular ways to govern itself. However, with a man like Erdogan in power... I highly doubt that this will stay for long.
You have a good point on the Jihadist point however, Christianity is no better. It really isn't. US politicians use it to justify limiting homosexual marriage even though the US is clearly not a Theocracy.
My point is that it isn't the religion, it's the stupidity of the people.
I personally couldn't care less about religions as a whole but I know how to have some respect against other peoples' beliefs and not say anything stupid that may or may not offend them.
The way you introduced yourself into this topic was really unnecessary and I took a double-take when I saw it. That's why I said "Please Elaborate" because I haven't seen anyone on here with such an audacity to say something this disrespectful and condescending against another person's beliefs.
It isn't me being "Apologetic" or "PC", it's me telling you to act like you have human decency especially since the Forum rules disallow this behavior.
Don't lump me in with those "Safe space" hypocritical cry babies and those damn Femi-Nazis.
I'd like to know how I was being a dick other than telling you to stop being one yourself.
PhencyclidineHcl August 14, 2016 at 5:08 PM UTC
I never lumped you into any category but I guess thats your problem, you can't seem to stop misinterpreting my words and TELLING me what i'm trying to say. Anyhow you still seem to make obvious fallacious statements by equating my Words as some sort of "Christian" agenda when I would Say the same thing about any Major religion, but for the sake of staying on the topic of the thread, I chose to specify Islam. So why don't you do yourself a favor and stick to the topic or if you would like to make a thread asking questions to Christians (or any other religion), then go ahead. Anyways, I do not wish to constantly refute your logical fallacies any longer because I think that you may or may not be possibly trolling me, but I will ask this last question to you my stubborn friend. Why is it that most countries with secular institutions do not follow any of the practices such as Honor Killings, Stoning, Refusing to allow women to drive, Female Genital mutilation (African Islamic States), Homosexual Killing/Incarceration and others? Is it really not due to False beliefs ingrained into people since they were young, or is everything just a mass conspiracy?PhencyclidineHcl August 14, 2016 at 5:08 PM UTC
America Actually Did Legalize Homosexuality and I doubt any Islamic Theocracy In my lifetime would do the same. I highly doubt that is due to some conspiracy and not just plain religious Brainwashing But who knows? Im the atheist Dickhead Asshole right?_DipperPines August 14, 2016 at 5:08 PM UTC
Is it against the what Islams bible says to brutishly murder people who don't want to convert?PhencyclidineHcl August 14, 2016 at 5:08 PM UTC
Is it against the what Islams bible says to brutishly murder people who don't want to convert?
_DipperPines August 14, 2016 at 6:08 PM UTC
Need I?
PhencyclidineHcl August 14, 2016 at 7:08 PM UTC
What?
BoldAndBrash August 14, 2016 at 7:08 PM UTC
Is it against the what Islams bible says to brutishly murder people who don't want to convert?
_DipperPines August 14, 2016 at 8:08 PM UTC
Just saying, but you don't call it "Islam's Bible" since Bible is a word for another religion. It's called the Quran.
1BJ August 30, 2016 at 9:08 PM UTC
America Actually Did Legalize Homosexuality and I doubt any Islamic Theocracy In my lifetime would do the same. I highly doubt that is due to some conspiracy and not just plain religious Brainwashing But who knows? Im the atheist Dickhead Asshole right?
I think homo hatred is due to tradition and culture but not due to Quran perse
1BJ August 30, 2016 at 9:08 PM UTC
Is it against the what Islams bible says to brutishly murder people who don't want to convert?
It is not against the ruling of SOME Hadith (second book for most muslims not me tho)
PhencyclidineHcl September 5, 2016 at 7:09 PM UTC
As I said before, you are willingly Ignorant of cold hard facts. Therefore, If you are going to continue to project Clear Bs upon me, then there is no reason for me to go any further bro. Just know that you don't know what tf you're talking about and you are willingly ignorant of empirical facts. Have a good one though man.-X
1BJ September 5, 2016 at 8:09 PM UTC
As I said before, you are willingly Ignorant of cold hard facts. Therefore, If you are going to continue to project Clear Bs upon me, then there is no reason for me to go any further bro. Just know that you don't know what tf you're talking about and you are willingly ignorant of empirical facts. Have a good one though man.
-X
Therefor their scource is pretty biased, fact
I studied the Quran and the scources of Hadith, fact
You didn't studied annything Islam related from a neutral/islamic perspective, prob fact
PhencyclidineHcl September 5, 2016 at 9:09 PM UTC
The stories about Muhammed were all compiled by Zoroastrian persians, fact
Therefor their scource is pretty biased, fact
I studied the Quran and the scources of Hadith, fact
You didn't studied annything Islam related from a neutral/islamic perspective, prob fact
Lytei September 6, 2016 at 1:09 AM UTC
I am a muslim.Myworld6 September 6, 2016 at 11:09 AM UTC
The pagans that he forcefully converted or killed due to unwillingness to convert?
You mean in the same way that the Jews stood by and let the Romans persecute Christians even though they had a huge amount of influence in Roman culture?
Calling out one religion's religious authority while dismissing others is senseless and borders on ignorance. Moses and the Israelites used to pillage any villages they came across, but do you consider that what they did was just as, if not more, vile than what Muhammed allegedly did?
No, Muhammed may not have been a particularly good man - and trust me, I'm not a Muslim nor do I agree with many of their beliefs, traditions and requirements (e.g. Muslim women who show their hair in public will go to Hell so must keep it covered) - he was no worse than Moses (allowed his Israelites to slaughter, rape and pillage from those who did not worship his god), Abraham, even Jesus (called a Gentile woman a dog). All religious authorities held outdated beliefs and acted upon them.
Myworld6 September 6, 2016 at 11:09 AM UTC
Is it against the what Islams bible says to brutishly murder people who don't want to convert?
ref September 6, 2016 at 2:09 PM UTC
wew
ApolloIsFunky September 6, 2016 at 3:09 PM UTC
I have always facsinated muslims and have always wonder what is going on their heads, especially since i have a friend who is muslim. But is it true that they can't kill ants on purpose, or that they don't recieve anything (gift wise) for heir birthdays?DaFrozenBlaze September 6, 2016 at 4:09 PM UTC
I have always facsinated muslims and have always wonder what is going on their heads, especially since i have a friend who is muslim. But is it true that they can't kill ants on purpose, or that they don't recieve anything (gift wise) for heir birthdays?
ApolloIsFunky September 6, 2016 at 4:09 PM UTC
I think you mean Muslims have always fascinated you right?...
1BJ September 6, 2016 at 6:09 PM UTC
The pagans that he forcefully converted or killed due to unwillingness to convert?
It clearly contradicts the stuff the Quran is telling us. Quran is compiled by the friends of Muhammed 0 - 30 years after his death.
But then the Hadiths tells us Muhammed killed people in order to convert. Hadiths are like 70 books (Bukhari only) next to Muslim, Abu Dawood etc. Compiled 250 years after Muhammeds death by 7 different people all from a persian zoroastrian background.
Now tell me, which scource about Muhammeds life is better? The scource you, Daesh/Islamic state and most Islam skeptics are using or the Quran?
1BJ September 6, 2016 at 7:09 PM UTC
You mean in the same way that Christians drove out Pagans (followers of one of the oldest religions and one of the most peace-loving religions that has ever existed) from countries such as England and Ireland?
You mean in the same way that the Jews stood by and let the Romans persecute Christians even though they had a huge amount of influence in Roman culture?
Calling out one religion's religious authority while dismissing others is senseless and borders on ignorance. Moses and the Israelites used to pillage any villages they came across, but do you consider that what they did was just as, if not more, vile than what Muhammed allegedly did?
No, Muhammed may not have been a particularly good man - and trust me, I'm not a Muslim nor do I agree with many of their beliefs, traditions and requirements (e.g. Muslim women who show their hair in public will go to Hell so must keep it covered) - he was no worse than Moses (allowed his Israelites to slaughter, rape and pillage from those who did not worship his god), Abraham, even Jesus (called a Gentile woman a dog). All religious authorities held outdated beliefs and acted upon them.
Since Zoroastrians also believed annyone believing annything but living like a Zoroastrian would enter paradise.
http://www.quran-islam.org/articles/women_dress_code_(P1150).html
I read/studied the Avestas (Zoroastrian/Persian holy scripture)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chador
"The earliest written record ofchador can be found in Pahlavi scripts from the 6th century."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pahlavi_scripts
"Child systems: Avestan"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_al-Bukhari
"Bukharis father, Bardizbah, is the earliest known ancestor of Bukhari according to most scholars and historians. He was a Magi (Zoroastrian and died as such)"
Myworld6 September 6, 2016 at 7:09 PM UTC
Actually an Hijab/hair cover only comes from Hadith scources and not from the Quran. Hadiths are compiled by 'ex' Zoroastrians and Zoroastrian womans used to wear Hijabs. All stories about Muhammed saying things about covering hair are probably made up by Zoroastrian man to 'protect' their woman.
Since Zoroastrians also believed annyone believing annything but living like a Zoroastrian would enter paradise.
http://www.quran-islam.org/articles/women_dress_code_(P1150).html
I read/studied the Avestas (Zoroastrian/Persian holy scripture)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chador
"The earliest written record ofchador can be found in Pahlavi scripts from the 6th century."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pahlavi_scripts
"Child systems: Avestan"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_al-Bukhari
"Bukharis father, Bardizbah, is the earliest known ancestor of Bukhari according to most scholars and historians. He was a Magi (Zoroastrian and died as such)"
BoldAndBrash September 6, 2016 at 8:09 PM UTC
I have always facsinated muslims and have always wonder what is going on their heads, especially since i have a friend who is muslim. But is it true that they can't kill ants on purpose, or that they don't recieve anything (gift wise) for heir birthdays?
PhencyclidineHcl September 7, 2016 at 12:09 AM UTC
I can understand that, but it's polluted Islamic beliefs in today's society to the point that ever Muslim friend and person I've spoken to that's female wears one. =(
PhencyclidineHcl September 7, 2016 at 12:09 AM UTC
A classic Quran Verse which I acquired from a website dedicated to the study of this particular scripture. Not from the Hadith since of course a religious apologist will decide to deny the legitimacy of that scripture. But anyways, feast your eyes upon this. A well constructed response would be helpful explaining it to me though...(Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)" (Translation is from the Noble Quran) The verse prior to this (190) refers to "fighting for the cause of Allah those who fight you" leading some to believe that the entire passage refers to a defensive war in which Muslims are defending their homes and families. The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, however, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were notunder attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). Verse 190 thus means to fight those who offer resistance to Allah's rule (ie. Muslim conquest). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is disingenuous (the actual Arabic words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The word used instead, "fitna", can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. This is certainly what is meant in this context since the violence is explicitly commissioned "until religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.)
PhencyclidineHcl September 7, 2016 at 12:09 AM UTC
You mean in the same way that Christians drove out Pagans (followers of one of the oldest religions and one of the most peace-loving religions that has ever existed) from countries such as England and Ireland?
You mean in the same way that the Jews stood by and let the Romans persecute Christians even though they had a huge amount of influence in Roman culture?
Calling out one religion's religious authority while dismissing others is senseless and borders on ignorance. Moses and the Israelites used to pillage any villages they came across, but do you consider that what they did was just as, if not more, vile than what Muhammed allegedly did?
No, Muhammed may not have been a particularly good man - and trust me, I'm not a Muslim nor do I agree with many of their beliefs, traditions and requirements (e.g. Muslim women who show their hair in public will go to Hell so must keep it covered) - he was no worse than Moses (allowed his Israelites to slaughter, rape and pillage from those who did not worship his god), Abraham, even Jesus (called a Gentile woman a dog). All religious authorities held outdated beliefs and acted upon them.
PS- I apologize If I appeared Irate, but when you happen to be recycling the same argument against me as If I'm some bible thumping Trump fan from the south, I get uneasy because That Isn't the truth. I am a man of Science and Reason And I will die that way too.
1BJ September 7, 2016 at 6:09 AM UTC
A classic Quran Verse which I acquired from a website dedicated to the study of this particular scripture. Not from the Hadith since of course a religious apologist will decide to deny the legitimacy of that scripture. But anyways, feast your eyes upon this. A well constructed response would be helpful explaining it to me though...
(Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)" (Translation is from the Noble Quran) The verse prior to this (190) refers to "fighting for the cause of Allah those who fight you" leading some to believe that the entire passage refers to a defensive war in which Muslims are defending their homes and families. The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, however, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were notunder attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). Verse 190 thus means to fight those who offer resistance to Allah's rule (ie. Muslim conquest). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is disingenuous (the actual Arabic words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The word used instead, "fitna", can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. This is certainly what is meant in this context since the violence is explicitly commissioned "until religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.)
[2:194] the sacred month is for the sacred month, and for (all) violations is legal retribution. So whoever has assaulted you, then assault him in the same way that he has assaulted you. And fear God and know that God is with those who fear Him.
[2:195] And spend in the way of God and do not throw [yourselves] with your [own] hands into destruction. And do good; indeed, God loves the doers of good.
So we are only able to kill annyone if they killed as well 2:194 says. Then 2:195 tells us its better to do good then to fight. This is next to the fact that 2:193 also told us not to transgress when they cease except against the Az-Zalimum which is translated incorrect. https://www.abc.se/~m9783/qd_e.html
Secondly Fitnah doesn't mean disbelief, its a small part disbelievers sometimes do. It means persecution
Myworld6 September 7, 2016 at 7:09 AM UTC
Once again you fail at your argument because you assume I gave any more shits or respects towards Christianity than I gave to Islam. Lets make this clear once AGAIN! I don't care about Christianity nor do I have respect for the things in the bible. However, If you want to change the thread topic and debate wether The Old and New Testament were Almost equal to the Koran/Hadith then Im all with you on that one brother.
PS- I apologize If I appeared Irate, but when you happen to be recycling the same argument against me as If I'm some bible thumping Trump fan from the south, I get uneasy because That Isn't the truth. I am a man of Science and Reason And I will die that way too.
Curious, I failed at an argument again even though this is the first time I've gotten involved in weeks? If you can't even remember who you've been arguing with, then there's no point to your posts.
"I don't care about Christianity nor do I have respect for the things in the Bible".
Okay, let's slow down here. You do realise that many of the western laws are based off of the Bible's Ten Commandments, right? Not everything in the Old Testament is senseless hatred.
I never understood the bigoted hatred some atheists felt for religion. I detest it because of its corrupting and narrow-minded views, but I admire religious believers (I'm a Deist, if you're wondering) for their faith in religion and I ackowledge that religion is capable of wonderful things, e.g. a German priest during World War 2 took the place of a Jew as he was about to be gassed to save his life, all because he believed in his god and his religion. If that's not commendable, then I don't know what is.
"I am a man of science and reason". Okay, please don't refer to science as if it can answer everything. It can't, and this is coming from someone who used to study scientific blogs and papers for fun. Science can't explain what came before the Big Bang (and therefore they can't prove that God didn't create it), nor can it explain why the honeybees are dying out. I love science, but to claim that it is the only true path is no different from worshipping a religion, making you a hypocrite.
If I disagree with something in religion, I have a sensible discussion with them. I don't shout about how awful religion is and cite negative quotations from the Bible or Quran. For every negative comment ("as for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands; it is the reward for their deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah") there is a positive comment or command ("fight against those who fight against you in the way of Allah, but do not transgress; for God does not love trangressors). If you're going to be arrogant enough to dismiss me as someone who piggy-backs off someone else's arguments, then that shows me that you're clearly not mature enough for an actual discussion.
P.S. Sorry about any spelling or grammatical mistakes. I typed this while on my phone.
Myworld6 September 7, 2016 at 7:09 AM UTC
As I said, Sometimes the truth hurts. This all ties in to admitting the fact of indoctrination In certain religions and how they can cause otherwise peaceful people to become violent. All this Bs ties in to the major Abrahamic Scriptures as they are all based off of the same literature for the most part. My problem comes where you have somebody who claims they're intelligent enough to read quotes from the Koran Decides to either deny the terrible verses existence or try to apply some sort of incorrect translation. I get this isn't a debate and all that but you have to understand that just because I disagree with ISLAM as a whole, doesn't mean that I hate muslims. Of course I don't because most of my recent disdain for religious law was brought up from me knowing a lot of religious people. These people (muslims/Ex Muslims mostly) Who were kind of conflicted with the religion to begin with, told me the truth about everything from jihad, Housewives never amount to shit, stoning, women in our allied state not being able to drive and much more. From a rational Stand Point, why would you find it so hard to believe that a book written so far back when wouldn't have sections incompatible with all secular societies?
Maybe, but ignorance hurts more and its poison is far stronger.
"My problem comes where you have somebody who claims they're intelligent enough to read quotes from the Koran Decides to either deny the terrible verses existence or try to apply some sort of incorrect translation".
I won't deny that the OP has tried to dress up some quotes from the Quran. However, he hasn't denied them when presented with quotations from the source material.
"From a rational Stand Point, why would you find it so hard to believe that a book written so far back when wouldn't have sections incompatible with all secular societies?"
I never denied that the Quran has obsolete ideas. Everything does. Christianity used to (and some branches still do) think the world was created in 6 days. Science led people to believe that the world was flat and that witches existed. Don't call out a religion's outdated beliefs without acknowledging science's.
Also, before you say about these ideas being theories that were proved wrong, bear in mind that the vast majority of religious people now accept the validity of the Big Bang theory.
If you want to continue this discussion, I suggest that you do it in a more civil manner. I'm not going to keep discussing such a sensitive topic as religion with someone who lacks basic respect for those who disagree with them. If you don't understand what I mean, look back through your previous posts.
1BJ September 7, 2016 at 9:09 AM UTC
"The truth hurts".
Maybe, but ignorance hurts more and its poison is far stronger.
"My problem comes where you have somebody who claims they're intelligent enough to read quotes from the Koran Decides to either deny the terrible verses existence or try to apply some sort of incorrect translation".
I won't deny that the OP has tried to dress up some quotes from the Quran. However, he hasn't denied them when presented with quotations from the source material.
"From a rational Stand Point, why would you find it so hard to believe that a book written so far back when wouldn't have sections incompatible with all secular societies?"
I never denied that the Quran has obsolete ideas. Everything does. Christianity used to (and some branches still do) think the world was created in 6 days. Science led people to believe that the world was flat and that witches existed. Don't call out a religion's outdated beliefs without acknowledging science's.
Also, before you say about these ideas being theories that were proved wrong, bear in mind that the vast majority of religious people now accept the validity of the Big Bang theory.
If you want to continue this discussion, I suggest that you do it in a more civil manner. I'm not going to keep discussing such a sensitive topic as religion with someone who lacks basic respect for those who disagree with them. If you don't understand what I mean, look back through your previous posts.
-"My problem comes where you have somebody who claims they're intelligent enough to read quotes from the Koran Decides to either deny the terrible verses existence or try to apply some sort of incorrect translation".
-"I won't deny that the OP has tried to dress up some quotes from the Quran. However, he hasn't denied them when presented with quotations from the source material."
Quran is written in Arabic and you can translate some Arabic word to various English words. Islam critics such as X11 mostly try to pick the worst translation well Muslims mostly try to pick the best translation or which goes in line with important Hadiths.
There are lots of names for Allah in the Quran. All these names are positive names so translating the Quran like some critics/hadith-followers do can contradict the essence of the verse.
For example, I write a book telling everyone how good I am. I am beloving, I am the maker of good, all merciful etc.
My book is written in lets say Abracadabra language. One of the verses can be translated so it says to take care of the poor BUT it can also be translated as ignore the poor. Which translation would you use? The worst one which is also contradicting my names or the better one going in line with my names/essence?
I believe that I do not dress up verses by translating it in a correct or better manner but I believe that they are getting undressed by the bad translations.
accidentally archieved the post lol
PhencyclidineHcl September 7, 2016 at 9:09 PM UTC
-"My problem comes where you have somebody who claims they're intelligent enough to read quotes from the Koran Decides to either deny the terrible verses existence or try to apply some sort of incorrect translation".
-"I won't deny that the OP has tried to dress up some quotes from the Quran. However, he hasn't denied them when presented with quotations from the source material."
Quran is written in Arabic and you can translate some Arabic word to various English words. Islam critics such as X11 mostly try to pick the worst translation well Muslims mostly try to pick the best translation or which goes in line with important Hadiths.
There are lots of names for Allah in the Quran. All these names are positive names so translating the Quran like some critics/hadith-followers do can contradict the essence of the verse.
For example, I write a book telling everyone how good I am. I am beloving, I am the maker of good, all merciful etc.
My book is written in lets say Abracadabra language. One of the verses can be translated so it says to take care of the poor BUT it can also be translated as ignore the poor. Which translation would you use? The worst one which is also contradicting my names or the better one going in line with my names/essence?
I believe that I do not dress up verses by translating it in a correct or better manner but I believe that they are getting undressed by the bad translations.accidentally archieved the post lol
PhencyclidineHcl September 7, 2016 at 9:09 PM UTC
"The truth hurts".
Maybe, but ignorance hurts more and its poison is far stronger.
"My problem comes where you have somebody who claims they're intelligent enough to read quotes from the Koran Decides to either deny the terrible verses existence or try to apply some sort of incorrect translation".
I won't deny that the OP has tried to dress up some quotes from the Quran. However, he hasn't denied them when presented with quotations from the source material.
"From a rational Stand Point, why would you find it so hard to believe that a book written so far back when wouldn't have sections incompatible with all secular societies?"
I never denied that the Quran has obsolete ideas. Everything does. Christianity used to (and some branches still do) think the world was created in 6 days. Science led people to believe that the world was flat and that witches existed. Don't call out a religion's outdated beliefs without acknowledging science's.
Also, before you say about these ideas being theories that were proved wrong, bear in mind that the vast majority of religious people now accept the validity of the Big Bang theory.
If you want to continue this discussion, I suggest that you do it in a more civil manner. I'm not going to keep discussing such a sensitive topic as religion with someone who lacks basic respect for those who disagree with them. If you don't understand what I mean, look back through your previous posts.
PhencyclidineHcl September 7, 2016 at 9:09 PM UTC
"The truth hurts".
Maybe, but ignorance hurts more and its poison is far stronger.
"My problem comes where you have somebody who claims they're intelligent enough to read quotes from the Koran Decides to either deny the terrible verses existence or try to apply some sort of incorrect translation".
I won't deny that the OP has tried to dress up some quotes from the Quran. However, he hasn't denied them when presented with quotations from the source material.
"From a rational Stand Point, why would you find it so hard to believe that a book written so far back when wouldn't have sections incompatible with all secular societies?"
I never denied that the Quran has obsolete ideas. Everything does. Christianity used to (and some branches still do) think the world was created in 6 days. Science led people to believe that the world was flat and that witches existed. Don't call out a religion's outdated beliefs without acknowledging science's.
Also, before you say about these ideas being theories that were proved wrong, bear in mind that the vast majority of religious people now accept the validity of the Big Bang theory.
If you want to continue this discussion, I suggest that you do it in a more civil manner. I'm not going to keep discussing such a sensitive topic as religion with someone who lacks basic respect for those who disagree with them. If you don't understand what I mean, look back through your previous posts.
Myworld6 September 7, 2016 at 9:09 PM UTC
Okay, it's easier for me to answer this as a single post rather than two separate ones.Regarding your first post, you are completely wrong when you stated my religious ideology. I am not an Atheist, I am a Deist. Deism and Atheism are COMPLETELY different. So, perhaps you care to explain where you got that preposterous idea?
As to my comment about witches and the Earth being flat, the people of that time, fuelled by religious teachings, conducted tests that their scientists insisted confirmed their theories. These included throwing a witch into water while strapped to a barrel. If she stayed under, she was innocent. If she reached the surface, she was a witch. Now I will not be so ignorant as to assume that Christianity had no part to play in this, but it is certain that science had a part in this, no matter how small and seemingly insignificant.
As to your second point; I never said that about Americans. In case you haven't noticed, I'm neither American nor am I quoting statistics at this point in time. I'm keeping this as a purely hypothetical debate. I also never said that most of the people mentioned in that statistic are practising Theists. Once again, you've confused me with someone else, and this is starting to become worrying. Kindly stop assuming and refer to the context of what I said, instead of calling me out for what you assumed from my posts.
PhencyclidineHcl September 7, 2016 at 9:09 PM UTC
Once again you have proved that you don't know what the heck you're talking about because those people living in New England were not Scientists they were Puritans. I don't see how you would in your right mind classify them as scientists because its not like Benjamin Franklin would agree with the methods Used at that time. Like bro i'm sorry but that's still not Science plain and simple. There were people who were Scientists who happened to live in the 1600s who even disagreed with these religious atrocities. Try again though. And also, another problem with irrational people is that they are willingly ignorant of cold hard evidence even when they are presented with said evidence. Just because you disagree with facts doesn't mean you change what happened in the past.PhencyclidineHcl September 7, 2016 at 9:09 PM UTC
Okay, it's easier for me to answer this as a single post rather than two separate ones.
Regarding your first post, you are completely wrong when you stated my religious ideology. I am not an Atheist, I am a Deist. Deism and Atheism are COMPLETELY different. So, perhaps you care to explain where you got that preposterous idea?
As to my comment about witches and the Earth being flat, the people of that time, fuelled by religious teachings, conducted tests that their scientists insisted confirmed their theories. These included throwing a witch into water while strapped to a barrel. If she stayed under, she was innocent. If she reached the surface, she was a witch. Now I will not be so ignorant as to assume that Christianity had no part to play in this, but it is certain that science had a part in this, no matter how small and seemingly insignificant.
As to your second point; I never said that about Americans. In case you haven't noticed, I'm neither American nor am I quoting statistics at this point in time. I'm keeping this as a purely hypothetical debate. I also never said that most of the people mentioned in that statistic are practising Theists. Once again, you've confused me with someone else, and this is starting to become worrying. Kindly stop assuming and refer to the context of what I said, instead of calling me out for what you assumed from my posts.
Myworld6 September 7, 2016 at 10:09 PM UTC
Another thing, you cannot possibly be serious about debating me about inaccurate hypothetical assumptions and call yourself correct. You automatically just lost because you Established that you aren't directly quoting some sort of peer reviewed study that would support the claim of "the vast majority of religious people believe in the big bang". Also tell me how you came to the conclusion of Science proving the Earth was flat.
Neither have you, so that's rather hypocritical. Every point you have made so far you have justified with the logic that "my Muslim friends say this".
In any case, it's quite clear that you have nothing substantial to say that has any bearing on the topic at hand. I'm just going to be the mature one here and drop this now. I advise you to do the same.
PhencyclidineHcl September 7, 2016 at 10:09 PM UTC
"Another thing, you cannot possibly be serious about debating me about inaccurate hypothetical assumptions and call yourself correct."
Neither have you, so that's rather hypocritical. Every point you have made so far you have justified with the logic that "my Muslim friends say this".
In any case, it's quite clear that you have nothing substantial to say that has any bearing on the topic at hand. I'm just going to be the mature one here and drop this now. I advise you to do the same.
Myworld6 September 7, 2016 at 10:09 PM UTC
I never even claimed anything you just made two ridiculous claims without any Historical or Scientific evidence to base your claims off of. I never did that wether you interpret my words as that or not.
"Just because you may be an Atheist does not mean you are a scientist but i'm waiting dude." Assuming that I am an Atheist when in fact I am a Deist (I believe in a many-faced god who is the basis for all religions but whom is apathetic towards the moral issues in the universe. Also, for the record, you're not a scientist either. It kind of removes the validity of what you say when the same logic applies to you.)
"Also elaborate on where you got that bogus statistic regarding a majority of religious people considering 42% of people in America alone believe in creationism. Also elaborate on how many of those people are also Practicing theists." I never said this, you just assumed that I was the one who said it as I replied to you.
There, "cold hard facts" for you drawn from your own points. I haven't got time for any more childish arguments about who said what and what they meant.
PhencyclidineHcl September 7, 2016 at 10:09 PM UTC
You did, actually.
"Just because you may be an Atheist does not mean you are a scientist but i'm waiting dude." Assuming that I am an Atheist when in fact I am a Deist (I believe in a many-faced god who is the basis for all religions but whom is apathetic towards the moral issues in the universe. Also, for the record, you're not a scientist either. It kind of removes the validity of what you say when the same logic applies to you.)
"Also elaborate on where you got that bogus statistic regarding a majority of religious people considering 42% of people in America alone believe in creationism. Also elaborate on how many of those people are also Practicing theists." I never said this, you just assumed that I was the one who said it as I replied to you.
There, "cold hard facts" for you drawn from your own points. I haven't got time for any more childish arguments about who said what and what they meant.
PhencyclidineHcl September 7, 2016 at 10:09 PM UTC
And once again that outrageous claim was not fact at all. It was just an untrue exaggeration based off of subjective interpretations. And you still can't answer my two questions that I asked you. Why do you still find the need to dodge the bullet and avoid my questions if the answers are so "set in stone" for you?Myworld6 September 7, 2016 at 10:09 PM UTC
What does me making a rough observation have to do with science bro? You still keep trying to do the same thing and its clearly not working. If thats honestly the only point that I made that you say is unscientific then what was the point of your input to begin with. Your opinion is entirely subjective and not based off of Facts posted in any Scientific literature. To add, my authority doesn't offer any validity to this argument but i'm currently attending college So that I can become a Pharmacist. Therefore, I do not know how I'm not a "Scientist"
You keep calling me out for lack of evidence, but then you don't provide any either. If there's one thing that I can't stand, it's a hypocrite.
By the way, if you actually read what I said I did answer your questions. Moreover, if what I quoted is subjective interpretation, then your opinion is entirely invalid as I quoted what you said.
I'm tired of arguing this as it is quite clear that you can not see the flaws in what you are saying. When you're ready to discuss this in a civil and rational manner, then we can continue. Until then, you're just wasting my time.
PhencyclidineHcl September 7, 2016 at 10:09 PM UTC
That makes you a trainee pharmacist. There's a difference between training and accomplished. I could be training to be a politician and go on to be a prime minister. Does that make me an accomplished politician? No. I haven't reached that level of advancement.
You keep calling me out for lack of evidence, but then you don't provide any either. If there's one thing that I can't stand, it's a hypocrite.
By the way, if you actually read what I said I did answer your questions. Moreover, if what I quoted is subjective interpretation, then your opinion is entirely invalid as I quoted what you said.
I'm tired of arguing this as it is quite clear that you can not see the flaws in what you are saying. When you're ready to discuss this in a civil and rational manner, then we can continue. Until then, you're just wasting my time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientist
PhencyclidineHcl September 7, 2016 at 10:09 PM UTC
And If you can't provide any Historical evidence for those fraudulent claims then you know why you can't...Myworld6 September 7, 2016 at 11:09 PM UTC
Dude you do not know what you're talking about. This whole monstrosity is laughable. ANYBODY can be a scientist. Being a Scientist isn't a profession! It's anybody who employs the Scientific method to develop conclusions about the natural world. Finishing college doesn't make anyone more or less a Scientist. Using the scientific method does. This is why I hate and love arguing with willfully ignorant people, because I get to destroy common misconceptions but I also have to deal with the foolish things you've just said. And to add, you still did not answer my questions regarding how science had any hand in the Salem Witch Trials or Flat Earth Theory. Your condescending tone that you impose on me is really sad because you do not know what you are talking about, however I would appreciate you finally answering those two questions and don't forget to Give me some evidence. I.e Historical Evidence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientist
You just contradicted yourself AGAIN. First you argued that training to be a pharmacist makes your ideas more creditable, then you contradict that by pointing out that anyone can be a scientist.
I'm sorry, but I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to religion? I was raised as a Theist until I was 12. I studied Christianity, Judaism and Islam for 5 year in school and have spent nearly a decade doing the same outside of school.
Drop the superior tone. I'm not being condescending, I'm simply pointing out that your arguments are flawed and lack substance. Saying the same things over and over again and trying to belittle my points is the mark of immaturity and pure rudeness. As I have said 3 times now, I will only discuss this topic with you once you learn to have some respect.
Moreover, it's quite laughable that you call me ignorant. I am a great many things, but ignorant is not one of them. I have studied both religion and science for years, and both play a huge part in my day to day life.
I will answer your questions (and yes, I can answer them) when you learn some respect and stop jumping the gun everytime you don't agree with something.
PhencyclidineHcl September 8, 2016 at 12:09 AM UTC
*Sigh* Here we go again.
You just contradicted yourself AGAIN. First you argued that training to be a pharmacist makes your ideas more creditable, then you contradict that by pointing out that anyone can be a scientist.
I'm sorry, but I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to religion? I was raised as a Theist until I was 12. I studied Christianity, Judaism and Islam for 5 year in school and have spent nearly a decade doing the same outside of school.
Drop the superior tone. I'm not being condescending, I'm simply pointing out that your arguments are flawed and lack substance. Saying the same things over and over again and trying to belittle my points is the mark of immaturity and pure rudeness. As I have said 3 times now, I will only discuss this topic with you once you learn to have some respect.
Moreover, it's quite laughable that you call me ignorant. I am a great many things, but ignorant is not one of them. I have studied both religion and science for years, and both play a huge part in my day to day life.
I will answer your questions (and yes, I can answer them) when you learn some respect and stop jumping the gun everytime you don't agree with something.
PhencyclidineHcl September 8, 2016 at 12:09 AM UTC
*Sigh* Here we go again.
You just contradicted yourself AGAIN. First you argued that training to be a pharmacist makes your ideas more creditable, then you contradict that by pointing out that anyone can be a scientist.
I'm sorry, but I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to religion? I was raised as a Theist until I was 12. I studied Christianity, Judaism and Islam for 5 year in school and have spent nearly a decade doing the same outside of school.
Drop the superior tone. I'm not being condescending, I'm simply pointing out that your arguments are flawed and lack substance. Saying the same things over and over again and trying to belittle my points is the mark of immaturity and pure rudeness. As I have said 3 times now, I will only discuss this topic with you once you learn to have some respect.
Moreover, it's quite laughable that you call me ignorant. I am a great many things, but ignorant is not one of them. I have studied both religion and science for years, and both play a huge part in my day to day life.
I will answer your questions (and yes, I can answer them) when you learn some respect and stop jumping the gun everytime you don't agree with something.
Myworld6 September 8, 2016 at 6:09 AM UTC
I also stated that I was mastering in Chemistry due to the fact that you claimed that I wasn't a Scientist. Which of course was another fault/loss to you. Also why do you keep trying to inform me of your "knowledge" when you knowledge is irrelevant in a formal discussion which requires more than just Authorization. You need to provide evidence instead of an emotional subjective opinion on "how well" you know Theology/Science. I was also raised a muslim myself, however the relevance to the discussion is negligible considering that is nothing more than a personal anecdote and no evidence to the contrary. Also please explain how me begging you to substantiate your claims is "immature" when Children argue without using evidence to substantiate their claims?
Now, you can argue more with me or let this go. I honestly am not bothered either way as I haven't enough time to debate this any further. Thus, you can either do the same and end this on relatively good terms where no one is completely humiliated, or you can argue with someone whom has since stopped responding. The choice is yours.
Phjilip September 8, 2016 at 6:09 AM UTC
Is it nice to be a muslim? or pretty difficult?DaFrozenBlaze September 8, 2016 at 7:09 AM UTC
Is it nice to be a muslim? or pretty difficult?
1BJ September 8, 2016 at 8:09 AM UTC
If the translation is Obsolete then how can anything have any validity in the Koran?
Every translation translation which contradicts other verses within the Quran is invalid. Sometimes I see those horrible translations contradicting other verses and think by myself, which one is the right one.
Allah is the most merciful so the most merciful translation wins.
About science/creationism, a Quranist friend wrote this.
http://19.org/blog/stages-of-creation/
It basically tells us the Quran goes exactly in line with what evolution scientists tells us
fun fact is also that there were Quranist (since hadiths would contradict evolution) Islamic scientist/philosophers which already had the idea about monkeys being the our ancestors before Darwin came with evolution.
http://19.org/books/islamic-theory-of-evolution-shanavas/
19.org wrote some articles about this but you should search everything up yourself.
About Adam there is a verse in the Quran saying the creation of Adam is the same as the Creation of Jesus, both had a mom meaning Adam's story in the Quran can't tell us to believe in evolution.
[3:59] Truly, the likeness of Jesus, in God's sight, is as Adam's likeness; He created him of dust, then said He unto him, 'Be,' and he was.
Dust is also used in the following verse before drop of sperm
[22:5] We created you from dust, then from a sperm-drop, then from a clinging clot, and then from a lump of flesh, formed and unformed - that We may show you.
I personally believe dust refers to the egg-cell since both are small particles and floating. Adam is had a mum.
Phjilip September 8, 2016 at 12:09 PM UTC
Why are you even asking this here
PhencyclidineHcl September 8, 2016 at 8:09 PM UTC
I haven't the time or the patience for this anymore. This argument has just gone completely downhill in its maturity (through both of our actions). Arguing this is taking up way too much of my precious free time. It's evident that the two of us are both too stubborn to concede the other's points so I'm just going to let this drop with the concession that you do know what you are talking about and I apologise for thinking differently.
Now, you can argue more with me or let this go. I honestly am not bothered either way as I haven't enough time to debate this any further. Thus, you can either do the same and end this on relatively good terms where no one is completely humiliated, or you can argue with someone whom has since stopped responding. The choice is yours.
PhencyclidineHcl September 8, 2016 at 8:09 PM UTC
Sometimes it is obsolete and sometimes it isn't obsolete.
Every translation translation which contradicts other verses within the Quran is invalid. Sometimes I see those horrible translations contradicting other verses and think by myself, which one is the right one.
Allah is the most merciful so the most merciful translation wins.
About science/creationism, a Quranist friend wrote this.
http://19.org/blog/stages-of-creation/
It basically tells us the Quran goes exactly in line with what evolution scientists tells us
fun fact is also that there were Quranist (since hadiths would contradict evolution) Islamic scientist/philosophers which already had the idea about monkeys being the our ancestors before Darwin came with evolution.
http://19.org/books/islamic-theory-of-evolution-shanavas/
19.org wrote some articles about this but you should search everything up yourself.
About Adam there is a verse in the Quran saying the creation of Adam is the same as the Creation of Jesus, both had a mom meaning Adam's story in the Quran can't tell us to believe in evolution.
[3:59] Truly, the likeness of Jesus, in God's sight, is as Adam's likeness; He created him of dust, then said He unto him, 'Be,' and he was.
Dust is also used in the following verse before drop of sperm
[22:5] We created you from dust, then from a sperm-drop, then from a clinging clot, and then from a lump of flesh, formed and unformed - that We may show you.
I personally believe dust refers to the egg-cell since both are small particles and floating. Adam is had a mum.
PhencyclidineHcl September 8, 2016 at 8:09 PM UTC
Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."Yeah seems legit... By the way I have a Quran on my person so answer this question in a separate post. If the words posted above are somehow "mistranslations" then how can you rationally deduce that everything else in the Quran isn't a mistranslation. And why is the Quran (as "Holy" as it is) so subject to mistranslations compared to other "Holy" Literature? Why would your god make it so hard to tell us the truth about things if he were so straight forward back in those days? Old Arabic Isn't some sort of Alien Language. In fact you can accurately translate It very well in todays society...
1BJ September 8, 2016 at 8:09 PM UTC
If the translation is Obsolete then how can anything have any validity in the Koran?
PhencyclidineHcl September 8, 2016 at 8:09 PM UTC
its a book of puzzles. If it contradicts other verses it is most likely wrong. If it contradicts being merciful it is wrong as well since the Quran reminds us that Allah is the most merciful every chapter but one
1BJ September 8, 2016 at 8:09 PM UTC
Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."
Yeah seems legit... By the way I have a Quran on my person so answer this question in a separate post. If the words posted above are somehow "mistranslations" then how can you rationally deduce that everything else in the Quran isn't a mistranslation. And why is the Quran (as "Holy" as it is) so subject to mistranslations compared to other "Holy" Literature? Why would your god make it so hard to tell us the truth about things if he were so straight forward back in those days? Old Arabic Isn't some sort of Alien Language. In fact you can accurately translate It very well in todays society...
Rules of War
[2:190] You may fight in the cause of GOD against those who attack you, but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors.
[2:191] You may kill those who wage war against you, and you may evict them whence they evicted you. Oppression is worse than murder. Do not fight them at the Sacred Masjid, unless they attack you therein. If they attack you, you may kill them. This is the just retribution for those disbelievers.
[2:192] If they refrain, then GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
[2:193] You may also fight them to eliminate oppression, and to worship GOD freely. If they refrain, you shall not aggress; aggression is permitted only against the aggressors.
There are lots of verses like this. If a verse contradicts these verses you may ask yourself, did I read the verses above and under, did I miss-interpret it a verse or can I translate it in a better way not contradicting these verses
1BJ September 8, 2016 at 8:09 PM UTC
Answer my questions dude... All you are is spitting irrelevant opinions.
If Allah is merciful but the verse says otherwise and you can translate it in a better manner, then you should translate the verse so it is more merciful.
As I said its a book of Pussles so we may not just leave the book on a desk but actually investigate it. Thats the best part of the Quran. I can read it 1000 of times and yet discover something new every time.
Myworld6 September 8, 2016 at 9:09 PM UTC
Yeah YOU made yourself look foolish as hell lol. But good day, good discussion.
Good day.
PhencyclidineHcl September 9, 2016 at 10:09 PM UTC
Keep telling yourself that, friend. At the end of the day, this argument didn't do or prove anything. No one won and no one lost. I simply don't have the time to argue this anymore, so I'm compromising as neither of us is going to win this argument. You should take it instead of making unnecessary and incorrect comments, unless you want another nonsensical argument that lasts 3 pages.
Good day.
PhencyclidineHcl September 9, 2016 at 10:09 PM UTC
When you meet them in battle. So no this verse is no reason to fight it only tells us to fight back in battles.
Rules of War
[2:190] You may fight in the cause of GOD against those who attack you, but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors.
[2:191] You may kill those who wage war against you, and you may evict them whence they evicted you. Oppression is worse than murder. Do not fight them at the Sacred Masjid, unless they attack you therein. If they attack you, you may kill them. This is the just retribution for those disbelievers.
[2:192] If they refrain, then GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
[2:193] You may also fight them to eliminate oppression, and to worship GOD freely. If they refrain, you shall not aggress; aggression is permitted only against the aggressors.
There are lots of verses like this. If a verse contradicts these verses you may ask yourself, did I read the verses above and under, did I miss-interpret it a verse or can I translate it in a better way not contradicting these verses
PhencyclidineHcl September 9, 2016 at 10:09 PM UTC
Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..."
Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end."
1BJ September 10, 2016 at 7:09 AM UTC
Hahaha! This is so funny now man like you cannot be serious... So are you telling me that you are the one to decide which verse is mistranslated and/or misinterpreted wholly because you disagree with what is being said?
It clearly said when you meet them in battle. So yes we may kill people in battle but all battles may only happend at self defence as the other Surahs said.
I didnt said im the one to decide whether a translation is correct or not. It contradicts with other verses if you intepretation (the verse - 'in battle' which is incorrect because we can't just delete two words from the verse) was correct.
You're clearly just here to post some out of context verse, see I responded and just not read it but talk shit.
1BJ September 10, 2016 at 9:09 AM UTC
Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."
Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..."
Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end."
[9:4] Except for those with whom you had a treaty from among those who have set up partners if they did not reduce anything from it nor did they plan to attack you; you shall fulfill their terms until they expire. God loves the righteous.
[9:5] So when the restricted months have passed, then you may kill those who have set up partners wherever you find them, take them, surround them, and stand against them at every point. If they repent, hold the contact prayer, and contribute towards betterment, then you shall leave them alone. God is Forgiving, Compassionate.
[9:6] If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah. and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.
So this tells us that we may fight people who have set partners during a peace treaty but only after the peace treaty expires. But if they repent we shall/ so have to leave them alone. If a civil (not muslim in this verse) is in need of help we will have to grant him both a secure escort and a secure new place.
Hahahaha this one (25:52) made me laugh. Its fun how your website religionofpeace translated the verse different in their own Quran translation then at the website you looked at. Press the link Quran (25:52) yourself and see what THEIR correct translation is.
52. So obey not the disbelievers, but strive against them (by preaching) with the utmost endeavour, with it (the Qur'an).
Also you may include verse 25:51.
[25:51] If We wish, We could send to every town a warner.*
They don't know about the Quran since they had no warner. Therefor we have to preach about with the Quran.
What does strive means? It can mean struggle, tryhard, rival or fight. And even if it ment fight. We muslims are still not allowed to fight unless its out of self defence.
http://www.masjidtucson.org/submission/perspectives/striving/wars.html
You can't deny these verses. And you source is pretty much really bad
AlvaroMorata September 10, 2016 at 9:09 AM UTC
Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."
Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..."
Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end."
on topic: is anal sex haram? being serious
Myworld6 September 10, 2016 at 12:09 PM UTC
Stop telling me that my argument is so "wrong then" especially since you have not debunked any claims using any empirical evidence.
The reason why I haven't used any empirical evidence is because I'm done arguing this. If I provide more empirical evidence, this argument will just start anew, and that's the last thing I need at the moment.
AtditC September 10, 2016 at 3:09 PM UTC
What's the difference between Christianity and Islam, and why are you muslim and not a christian?BoldAndBrash September 10, 2016 at 3:09 PM UTC
pretty sad that ur using verses then taking them out of context to support ur arguement
on topic: is anal sex haram? being serious
Myworld6 September 10, 2016 at 10:09 PM UTC
What's the difference between Christianity and Islam, and why are you muslim and not a christian?
Islam worships the same god, but their god is called Allah and not Yahweh.
Moreover, Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet but not the son of God.
I know that this is a pretty basic answer, but I hope it clears the most obvious differences up for you.
As for the second question, I'll let him answer that. =P
Zintenka September 10, 2016 at 11:09 PM UTC
I can answer that.
Islam worships the same god, but their god is called Allah and not Yahweh.
Moreover, Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet but not the son of God.
I know that this is a pretty basic answer, but I hope it clears the most obvious differences up for you.
As for the second question, I'll let him answer that. =P
Over one prophet? They might as well be different sects within eachother since it's the same god...
Myworld6 September 11, 2016 at 12:09 AM UTC
Why are there tensions between the two religions if they worship the same god?
Over one prophet? They might as well be different sects within eachother since it's the same god...
I agree, but alas that will never happen.
BoldAndBrash September 11, 2016 at 12:09 AM UTC
Why are there tensions between the two religions if they worship the same god?
Over one prophet? They might as well be different sects within eachother since it's the same god...