Avicus Archive

Conflict of Interests by Numberz_ December 7, 2016 at 9:12 PM UTC

Hi there,

I was looking through the forums and came across Zac's post. Which actually brings up a topic I've been meaning to start a discussion about for a while now... conflict of interest. What is that? It basically means that if you have an interest (part of something ex. staff or team) you cannot take part in the discussions that directly give your interest a better advantage. That being said, this happens a lot on Avicus. Too often. 

Majority of maps for this tournament - made by one team that is competing in the same tournament.

Officials impacting the outcome of maps they play in. 

Staff that are in the same team as another player not being punished. 

These are just a few examples I can think of off the top of my head but there are probably a lot more. I know that humans cannot fix the bias behaviours towards friends, teammates and fellow staff members, but they can take steps to cut back the amount it happens. 

Simple steps I think could work: 
Having official decisions in tournament's made by another official that isn't playing in that match.  And not allowing the official that is playing in said match have any say on the outcome one-soever (same with refs). 
Picking a wider variety of maps for tournaments, not maps all made by a specific group (actually ask for map submissions in advance...). 


I would love to hear what you guys think.

benaye December 7, 2016 at 10:12 PM UTC

+1

Legoche December 7, 2016 at 10:12 PM UTC

I don't see why people think we made the maps perfect for Apollo, we didn't lol, I can go through every map and explain legitimate reasons for every feature if I need to

dev_revs December 8, 2016 at 12:12 AM UTC

please lock


okay legit 3/8 officials were active this time. and only tazz and piez were on during the situation. Not much they could of done when it comes to getting more opinions.

Numberz_ December 8, 2016 at 3:12 AM UTC

I don't see why people think we made the maps perfect for Apollo, we didn't lol, I can go through every map and explain legitimate reasons for every feature if I need to
I'm not saying you guys make the maps "perfect". It just gives you guys a slight advantage when all the maps are made by the same group when nothing was mentioned on the forums about looking for submissions.  The builders and other players in your team are going to have a rough idea before hand which maps are being used and how to play them more effectively before the rest of the teams.

Numberz_ December 8, 2016 at 3:12 AM UTC

please lock


okay legit 3/8 officials were active this time. and only tazz and piez were on during the situation. Not much they could of done when it comes to getting more opinions.
They should have waited. Allowed another official to handle the situation later on...

_Gill December 8, 2016 at 3:12 AM UTC

Or no Officials participating in the tournament... That'd eliminate all bias.  Officials would never make it a rule, but it'd work.


Maybe a punishment if procedures aren't followed thouroughly.

Numberz_ December 8, 2016 at 3:12 AM UTC

Or no Officials participating in the tournament... That'd eliminate all bias.  Officials would never make it a rule, but it'd work.


Maybe a punishment if procedures aren't followed thouroughly.
Yeah, that would eliminate it completely. But it could work that some would be allowed to play for their teams as long as someone else looks after decision making in the matches other officials play.

dev_revs December 8, 2016 at 5:12 AM UTC

They should have waited. Allowed another official to handle the situation later on...
You cant wait to screenshare a player bud

DonaldMyTrump December 8, 2016 at 5:12 AM UTC

You cant wait to screenshare a player bud
I will bring up what I told officials. Officials run the tournies and if there are no refs or officials who are not in a position to make unbiased decisions it is the fault of the officials. Go train or recruit better.

Legoche December 8, 2016 at 7:12 AM UTC

I'm not saying you guys make the maps "perfect". It just gives you guys a slight advantage when all the maps are made by the same group when nothing was mentioned on the forums about looking for submissions.  The builders and other players in your team are going to have a rough idea before hand which maps are being used and how to play them more effectively before the rest of the teams.
No submissions were accepted because we had a week to prepare maps, I found out when the tourney was at the time of everyone else so we had to prepare maps quickly

JDKL December 8, 2016 at 8:12 AM UTC

Or no Officials participating in the tournament... That'd eliminate all bias.  Officials would never make it a rule, but it'd work.


Maybe a punishment if procedures aren't followed thouroughly.
I would love you to provide some usernames of people who would be a good Official but are not in a team. I'd rather have a decent tournament!

joelous December 8, 2016 at 9:12 AM UTC

I agree. You never see management participate in their own event, not because they don't have the skill or mindset to, but because they are in a position of power.

PosteGamer December 8, 2016 at 2:12 PM UTC

The Officials and the referees shouldn´t participate in the tournaments, mostly the Officials because they mannage ALL the tournamet, the referees just spect the match and guard that nobody use cheats / broke any rule but the Officials are who decide if the user must be banned or not / the team must be DQ´d or not. 

5 Officials are in a team: 3 (Cyclops-Tazz and PieZ) are in Team Allah 1 (Fouled) in ApoLLo & 1 (Nathy) is in Cacalmarin. I am not saying that they are biased with their team but if you have the power to control a tournament you shouldn´t play because you will recive a lot of complaints of others players saying that you are being biased to your team.

Xuph December 8, 2016 at 3:12 PM UTC

That is true however i cant imagine a tournament with the current playerbase without apollo making maps or tazz not being an official etc, the playerbase is just too small for that

Also i partly agree on the mapmaking topic since it could be used for the favor of a team, however i think its just being an excuse to teams to say since we are active and practice all the maps shitton. also how is it our fault if the members of our team make good maps that the officials want to consider?

dev_revs December 8, 2016 at 4:12 PM UTC

That is true however i cant imagine a tournament with the current playerbase without apollo making maps or tazz not being an official etc, the playerbase is just too small for that

Also i partly agree on the mapmaking topic since it could be used for the favor of a team, however i think its just being an excuse to teams to say since we are active and practice all the maps shitton. also how is it our fault if the members of our team make good maps that the officials want to consider?
Exactly my point. I don't think you guys had an advantage. You make great maps, you are a great team, you put time into practicing them. Not many people make maps anymore.

Crimson_Aught December 8, 2016 at 5:12 PM UTC

About maps: there weren't public request for building TE maps. Staff has just announced T4. Of course, those, who are in staff and map devs team, got such request, i think. All decisions are making in very closed staff group.
So it is a problem of Avicus. It is digging a grave for itself by such actions.
Do you hear me, staff and co.? You are breaking Minecraft Rule #1 - you are digging under yourself! And the bottom is closer than ever!

Tazz December 8, 2016 at 7:12 PM UTC

The Officials and the referees shouldn´t participate in the tournaments, mostly the Officials because they mannage ALL the tournamet, the referees just spect the match and guard that nobody use cheats / broke any rule but the Officials are who decide if the user must be banned or not / the team must be DQ´d or not. 

5 Officials are in a team: 3 (Cyclops-Tazz and PieZ) are in Team Allah 1 (Fouled) in ApoLLo & 1 (Nathy) is in Cacalmarin. I am not saying that they are biased with their team but if you have the power to control a tournament you shouldn´t play because you will recive a lot of complaints of others players saying that you are being biased to your team.
piez is only on the team he doesn't actively play for us nor is he in the tournament roster

Tazz December 8, 2016 at 7:12 PM UTC

About maps: there weren't public request for building TE maps. Staff has just announced T4. Of course, those, who are in staff and map devs team, got such request, i think. All decisions are making in very closed staff group.
So it is a problem of Avicus. It is digging a grave for itself by such actions.
Do you hear me, staff and co.? You are breaking Minecraft Rule #1 - you are digging under yourself! And the bottom is closer than ever!
we can't really make a public announcement for maps when we only found out when we could have a tournament a week before we announced it

Legoche December 8, 2016 at 7:12 PM UTC

About maps: there weren't public request for building TE maps. Staff has just announced T4. Of course, those, who are in staff and map devs team, got such request, i think. All decisions are making in very closed staff group.
So it is a problem of Avicus. It is digging a grave for itself by such actions.
Do you hear me, staff and co.? You are breaking Minecraft Rule #1 - you are digging under yourself! And the bottom is closer than ever!
you know why?
we had a week warning to request maps - not long enough

Goodnighht December 8, 2016 at 8:12 PM UTC

About maps: there weren't public request for building TE maps. Staff has just announced T4. Of course, those, who are in staff and map devs team, got such request, i think. All decisions are making in very closed staff group.
So it is a problem of Avicus. It is digging a grave for itself by such actions.
Do you hear me, staff and co.? You are breaking Minecraft Rule #1 - you are digging under yourself! And the bottom is closer than ever!
"Of course, those, who are in staff and map devs team, got such request, i think."

Where did you get this idea?? I didn't know about the tournament before any of the community did. We didn't know about the maps, the teams, the dates, anything. We learned from the same forum posts you guys did...

Crimson_Aught December 8, 2016 at 9:12 PM UTC

"Of course, those, who are in staff and map devs team, got such request, i think."

Where did you get this idea?? I didn't know about the tournament before any of the community did. We didn't know about the maps, the teams, the dates, anything. We learned from the same forum posts you guys did...
I havent said, that you know about that before forum post. I said, that tournament organizators didn't ask community to release their maps for T4, but they could, even it is one week left (actually two because of postponement).
Personally, I don't mind the fact that only map devs build map for tournaments. Yes, it is not cool, when it is always the same person. But again, it is a consequence of some fundamental problems, which server got not today. And in the present situation it is is impossible to solve them. So ggwp.

Legoche December 8, 2016 at 9:12 PM UTC

It's pretty pathetic, I play actively on 3 servers and Avicus, the smallest of the 3, has the most arguing/flame in the forums and in the staff team.

I think the rules aren't harsh enough and that the admins don't do a lot to prevent falling out within the staff team, and these divides for petty things are starting to be noticeable within the community. There's a reason the staff team is called a "team", and I can't see at the moment everyone co-ordinating and trying to help Avicus grow, just staff showing themselves up and making the server less welcoming...

joelous December 8, 2016 at 10:12 PM UTC

It's pretty pathetic, I play actively on 3 servers and Avicus, the smallest of the 3, has the most arguing/flame in the forums and in the staff team.

I think the rules aren't harsh enough and that the admins don't do a lot to prevent falling out within the staff team, and these divides for petty things are starting to be noticeable within the community. There's a reason the staff team is called a "team", and I can't see at the moment everyone co-ordinating and trying to help Avicus grow, just staff showing themselves up and making the server less welcoming...
You bring up issues, but do you have any solutions? This should have been brought up sooner. HMU on Slack!

AtditC December 8, 2016 at 10:12 PM UTC

You bring up issues, but do you have any solutions? This should have been brought up sooner. HMU on Slack!

_Nathy December 9, 2016 at 1:12 AM UTC

I don't know why ppl are complaining over apollo making the maps.

No offence to mapmakers, but these tourney maps are pretty garbage, however I understand the lack of time given.

imryaan December 9, 2016 at 6:12 PM UTC

I don't know why ppl are complaining over apollo making the maps.

No offence to mapmakers, but these tourney maps are pretty garbage, however I understand the lack of time given.
"are pretty garbage" -  Could you expand on that please. 

We were kind of pushed for time as the builders and most of the mapdevs only knew about the tourney at the same time as everyone else which is kind of silly as there could've been more maps and more testing.