Avicus Archive

BSM & Toggle Sneak by Pelpelajax July 12, 2015 at 7:07 AM UTC

Hello, 

As you're all aware we recently allowed players to use BSM. In some BSM versions there is a Toggle Sneak future. After an incident during the BC vs Berzerk match, we have tightened the rules a little bit. You may still use BSM, however if you're caught using  Toggle Sneak, you will get banned.

That's all for now, thanks!

nintendoboy11 July 12, 2015 at 7:07 AM UTC

Gotcha.

PokerFace July 12, 2015 at 8:07 AM UTC

Toggle sneak always resulted in a ban.

iKronix_Gaming July 12, 2015 at 8:07 AM UTC

Thanks for the notice Pelpelajax

BmB July 12, 2015 at 9:07 AM UTC

This. If PeruanCombo got DQ'd for hacks do the same.
Do you really think one player using togglesprint effected your match? No, we won fair and square please don't try to put us down.

emilizzle July 12, 2015 at 9:07 AM UTC

It wasn't toggle sprint, it was toggle sneak being used by one of your players which isn't allowed on Avicus  Also did it effect the game? Of course it did making it harder for us to locate the player giving him a better chance of not being seen. Hopefully everything gets sorted out.
lmao, he used it for 3 seconds and 10 seconds before he got detected by you guys, we didn't even used that tunnel after

Legoche July 12, 2015 at 9:07 AM UTC

lmao, he used it for 3 seconds and 10 seconds before he got detected by you guys, we didn't even used that tunnel after
So? A rule is a rule, what if somebody turned on kill aura for 10 seconds? Would he get banned?

emilizzle July 12, 2015 at 9:07 AM UTC

So? A rule is a rule, what if somebody turned on kill aura for 10 seconds? Would he get banned?
He said it made an advantage and it didn't. kill aura does

emilizzle July 12, 2015 at 9:07 AM UTC

You just admitted to your team using it nice all respect lost for you guys.
So I get my respect back by lying he didn't? Nice

Notalgicular July 12, 2015 at 9:07 AM UTC

It wasn't toggle sprint, it was toggle sneak being used by one of your players which isn't allowed on Avicus  Also did it effect the game? Of course it did making it harder for us to locate the player giving him a better chance of not being seen. Hopefully everything gets sorted out.
mann it was in 1 tunnel out of the whole game, and that tunnel got us no where anyway. You really think you would have won without that tunnel? get over your selves mannn

Sem July 12, 2015 at 9:07 AM UTC

Apollo vs bc is better

Notalgicular July 12, 2015 at 9:07 AM UTC

Its the fact that he used it during the match, hacking is not allowed in general it doesn't matter the amount of time he used it for its still not allowed.
you can't talk about what punishment "should" occur. If the right punishment was dished out to you, you'd be banned months ago. Look at your infractions aha.

Vijf July 12, 2015 at 9:07 AM UTC

Look at the video, it didn't give Bad Company an advantage, so what are we on about?

Lucifist July 12, 2015 at 9:07 AM UTC

Look at the video, it didn't give Bad Company an advantage, so what are we on about?
A rule is a rule, isn't it? I understand both arguments and both of them have good points, but when a rule is set, it should be followed.

Notalgicular July 12, 2015 at 9:07 AM UTC

How does my infractions have anything to do with the fact your team doesn't know hacks aren't allowed?
all im saying is you are being so ironic, when you got a page of infractions - you can't pull the old "doesn't know <whatever> isn't allowed."
This is despite the fact that the person in question of hacking doesn't have access to the website so can't read the rules.
I ain't gonna argue with you. If you wanna think in your head that you would of won, go for it. Maybe it might come true one day..

Sem July 12, 2015 at 9:07 AM UTC

who wants credits

emilizzle July 12, 2015 at 9:07 AM UTC

rematch?

badgg July 12, 2015 at 9:07 AM UTC

Calm down fellas. We all know this flamed discussion is heavily biased depending on what team you're on.

Now, let us handle the situation, and go do the muzz while you wait :]

Sem July 12, 2015 at 9:07 AM UTC

muzz

Lucifist July 12, 2015 at 9:07 AM UTC

To be honest, the best solution for both parties would to have a rematch. I think it's the only fair way.

MasterProX July 12, 2015 at 10:07 AM UTC

I don't deny that Bad Company would've won regardless, seeing as their PvP skills and tactics are above and beyond anything we — or, at least, I — could compete with, but the rule in question has been on the "Rules" page, and not punishing someone who broke said rule, just because (I admit) it didn't give them any significant advantage, is, essentially, bias.

Also, the "Terms of Use" state that, by playing on the server and using the website, you comply with "all applicable laws and regulations", which includes the restrictions on client modifications, and the rules make it awfully clear — anything that allows "crouching while using a Minecraft interface" is "strictly" prohibited. I hate to say it, but the fine print proves that it's your fault.

Keep me out of this debate, I'm not even on either side.

ImRaging July 12, 2015 at 10:07 AM UTC

Apollo vs bc is better
+1

emilizzle July 12, 2015 at 10:07 AM UTC

I don't deny that Bad Company would've won regardless, seeing as their PvP skills and tactics are above and beyond anything we — or, at least, I — could compete with, but the rule in question has been on the "Rules" page, and not punishing someone who broke said rule, just because (I admit) it didn't give them any significant advantage, is, essentially, bias.

Also, the "Terms of Use" state that, by playing on the server and using the website, you comply with "all applicable laws and regulations", which includes the restrictions on client modifications, and the rules make it awfully clear — anything that allows "crouching while using a Minecraft interface" is "strictly" prohibited. I hate to say it, but the fine print proves that it's your fault.

Keep me out of this debate, I'm not even on either side.
This rule was changed like a week ago, he can't get on the forums and can't watch the rules. We told him BSM is allowed and in most BSM there is toggle sneak. He thought toggle sneak was allowed as well since toggle run (BSM) is.

I still vote for a rematch

vladthegreat100 July 12, 2015 at 10:07 AM UTC

Tbh the mod should be illegal. Like stated above, if you accidently have your kill aura on for at least 10 seconds and a mod catches you, a ban will be given, toggle sneak is illegal and if you use it for as little as 10 seconds something should be done for it. You can't trust anyone with the BSM mod even if they don't do anything illegal, you never know if they try it one day. Either way, if you can't hotkey your sprint key and hold it on your keyboard and play decently don't call yourself good at pvp as you need a mod (which is an assistance) to be good at it.

VANILLA FTW

Notalgicular July 12, 2015 at 10:07 AM UTC

Tbh the mod should be illegal. Like stated above, if you accidently have your kill aura on for at least 10 seconds and a mod catches you, a ban will be given, toggle sneak is illegal and if you use it for as little as 10 seconds something should be done for it. You can't trust anyone with the BSM mod even if they don't do anything illegal, you never know if they try it one day. Either way, if you can't hotkey your sprint key and hold it on your keyboard and play decently don't call yourself good at pvp as you need a mod (which is an assistance) to be good at it.

VANILLA FTW
kill aura is game changing. In this state, toggle sprint isn't game changing

Pelpelajax July 12, 2015 at 10:07 AM UTC

kill aura is game changing. In this state, toggle sprint isn't game changing
It doesn't need to be game changing. If you hack, you hack, there is no way around that.

Lucifist July 12, 2015 at 10:07 AM UTC

It doesn't need to be game changing. If you hack, you hack, there is no way around that.
A rule is a rule.

Notalgicular July 12, 2015 at 10:07 AM UTC

It doesn't need to be game changing. If you hack, you hack, there is no way around that.
Then it should be dealt with individually with the player who hacked. (addressed to 99 saying we should be dq'd.) The whole team shouldn't be punished for something that wasn't gamechanging

Lucifist July 12, 2015 at 10:07 AM UTC

Then it should be dealt with individually with the player who hacked. (addressed to 99 saying we should be dq'd.) The whole team shouldn't be punished for something that wasn't gamechanging
If Peruan Combo got DQ'd for hacking, then this is no different. Doesn't matter if the hack was game changing or not, a hack is a hack and a rule is a rule.

Notalgicular July 12, 2015 at 10:07 AM UTC

A rule is a rule.
We're not arguing for Tazz not to be banned, we're just saying the whole team shouldn't be DQ'd. The whole team who have been scrimming months in advance and spent probably over 24 hours strating being DQ'd for something that didn't change the game is bullshit.

Sem July 12, 2015 at 10:07 AM UTC

I'm on mobile it is very slow but

Pelpelajax July 12, 2015 at 10:07 AM UTC

Then it should be dealt with individually with the player who hacked. (addressed to 99 saying we should be dq'd.) The whole team shouldn't be punished for something that wasn't gamechanging

Use of illegal modifications:

Hacking:

Lucifist July 12, 2015 at 10:07 AM UTC

We're not arguing for Tazz not to be banned, we're just saying the whole team shouldn't be DQ'd. The whole team who have been scrimming months in advance and spent probably over 24 hours strating being DQ'd for something that didn't change the game is bullshit.
I understand, but then why did Peruan Combo get DQ'd? It's a bit unfair to them if BC continued to play. Also, it doesn't matter if it wasn't game-changing, a hack is a hack and a rule is a rule.

Notalgicular July 12, 2015 at 10:07 AM UTC

Use of illegal modifications:

Hacking:

  • Team will be disqualified from the tournament.

  • Player who was caught hacking will be banned.

  • Entire team will be blacklisted from future tournaments.



    Taken from the rule set. If we only punish Tazz, it's unfair to the likes of Peruan Combo.

I strongly disagree with this entire team getting punished logic, but I'm going to stop posting.

StewieFG July 12, 2015 at 10:07 AM UTC

I'm on mobile it is very slow but
tbh microwave is faster

lithp July 12, 2015 at 10:07 AM UTC

I understand Tazz used something that he wasn't supposed to use, however, Tazz's internet provider does not allow him to get onto the forums.  He uses sky internet for anyone who wants to know. If you want a screen share with him to prove I am sure he will be more than happy to do that. So my point is, how could Tazz have known that this was a rule without someone telling him?

Pelpelajax July 12, 2015 at 10:07 AM UTC

I understand Tazz used something that he wasn't supposed to use, however, Tazz's internet provider does not allow him to get onto the forums.  He uses sky internet for anyone who wants to know. If you want a screen share with him to prove I am sure he will be more than happy to do that. So my point is, how could Tazz have known that this was a rule without someone telling him?
You ask an Official.

lithp July 12, 2015 at 10:07 AM UTC

Yes but why would he do that to something he thought he was allowed to use? There is no point in asking if he thought that he was allowed to use it.

Pelpelajax July 12, 2015 at 10:07 AM UTC

Yes but why would he do that to something he thought he was allowed to use? There is no point in asking if he thought that he was allowed to use it.
He thought it was allowed, but wasn't sure.

BmB July 12, 2015 at 10:07 AM UTC

Team leader should of gone through the rules with the team.
Did you seriously read through the entire rules section with your team? That's unreasonable, the mod didn't give us an advantage, he couldn't know about it, the rule has been edited so much over the past month or so how were we to know, especially when Tazz can't access the website from his internet provider. We should either rematch or dq Tazz, the team didn't know he was using it, he didn't know it was illegal and the whole incident was unclear.

OsamaBinBangin July 12, 2015 at 10:07 AM UTC

If 50% of BSM is legal, why don't we make 50% of Huzuni/Nodus legal?

people use BSM because it gives them an advantage
people use Huzuni because it gives them an advantage

StewieFG July 12, 2015 at 10:07 AM UTC

Did you seriously read through the entire rules section with your team? That's unreasonable, the mod didn't give us an advantage, he couldn't know about it, the rule has been edited so much over the past month or so how were we to know, especially when Tazz can't access the website from his internet provider. We should either rematch or dq Tazz, the team didn't know he was using it, he didn't know it was illegal and the whole incident was unclear.
"his internet provider doesnt allow him to go on the forums"

i understand both sides on the arguement, i agree a rule is a rule and doesnt matter if its gamechanging, or he didnt know about the rule, its his problem and the team needs to be responsible for the actions the members in there take. on the other hand, the rule was edited lots of times in the past few weeks which most likely caused confusion, however in all posts the sr staff made about this topic they mentioned that the toggle sneak isnt allowed abut the toggle sprint is. another reason why all staff should make 1 post per topic because players are getting confused.

Pelpelajax July 12, 2015 at 10:07 AM UTC

Did you seriously read through the entire rules section with your team? That's unreasonable, the mod didn't give us an advantage, he couldn't know about it, the rule has been edited so much over the past month or so how were we to know, especially when Tazz can't access the website from his internet provider. We should either rematch or dq Tazz, the team didn't know he was using it, he didn't know it was illegal and the whole incident was unclear.
If you're unclear, you ask. You could have asked an Official, or you could have checked the rules page. You can take some initiative.

Vijf July 12, 2015 at 11:07 AM UTC

"his internet provider doesnt allow him to go on the forums"

i understand both sides on the arguement, i agree a rule is a rule and doesnt matter if its gamechanging, or he didnt know about the rule, its his problem and the team needs to be responsible for the actions the members in there take. on the other hand, the rule was edited lots of times in the past few weeks which most likely caused confusion, however in all posts the sr staff made about this topic they mentioned that the toggle sneak isnt allowed abut the toggle sprint is. another reason why all staff should make 1 post per topic because players are getting confused.
It's July 12th now.

HotAndCrunch July 12, 2015 at 11:07 AM UTC

has there been any decision about what will happen to the team / player?


Tazz July 12, 2015 at 11:07 AM UTC

"his internet provider doesnt allow him to go on the forums"

i understand both sides on the arguement, i agree a rule is a rule and doesnt matter if its gamechanging, or he didnt know about the rule, its his problem and the team needs to be responsible for the actions the members in there take. on the other hand, the rule was edited lots of times in the past few weeks which most likely caused confusion, however in all posts the sr staff made about this topic they mentioned that the toggle sneak isnt allowed abut the toggle sprint is. another reason why all staff should make 1 post per topic because players are getting confused.
There's a thing called 3G and going to my grandparents?

HotAndCrunch July 12, 2015 at 11:07 AM UTC

The decision has been made.
and that decision is...?

Notalgicular July 12, 2015 at 11:07 AM UTC

shut the fuck up lol
what are you doing..

Tazz July 12, 2015 at 11:07 AM UTC

what are you doing..
? it's not official.

Sem July 12, 2015 at 11:07 AM UTC

not fun for apollo

Sem July 12, 2015 at 11:07 AM UTC

without bc we wouldnt get to the finals

Sem July 12, 2015 at 11:07 AM UTC

It is official. I understand your frustration, just don't go over the top. You aren't helping your team. Control it or action will be taken.
why dont u let an official post this

Notalgicular July 12, 2015 at 11:07 AM UTC

It is official. I understand your frustration, just don't go over the top. You aren't helping your team. Control it or action will be taken.
He's just angry because you went out of your way to be the person to notify is so you can laugh on the inside.

ImRaging July 12, 2015 at 11:07 AM UTC

I'm not being arrogant, in fact, I was arguing against the decision.
then why is the 'drum roll please' needed?

Lucifist July 12, 2015 at 11:07 AM UTC

He's just angry because you went out of your way to be the person to notify is so you can laugh on the inside.
I'm sorry if I offended you and your team, it wasn't my intention and I removed the post. Sorry, and I wish you good luck in future tournaments.

Notalgicular July 12, 2015 at 11:07 AM UTC

I'm sorry if I offended you and your team, it wasn't my intention and I removed the post. Sorry, and I wish you good luck in future tournaments.
Entire team will be blacklisted from future tournaments.

Strmr July 12, 2015 at 12:07 PM UTC

Please continue the discussion about bad company in a civilised way in this thread

StewieFG July 12, 2015 at 12:07 PM UTC

There's a thing called 3G and going to my grandparents?
welp, then bmb shouldve mentioned that because from what he says you can understand this seemed like a lie.

Pelpelajax July 12, 2015 at 1:07 PM UTC

Entire team will be blacklisted from future tournaments.
You may not be blacklisted. I don't see the need, unless you continue acting like this.

Notalgicular July 12, 2015 at 1:07 PM UTC

You may not be blacklisted. I don't see the need, unless you continue acting like this.
 you continue acting like this.
being who? all our team acting like this?
Is there something wrong with having a civil argument about something we believe is wrong?

BmB July 12, 2015 at 1:07 PM UTC

You may not be blacklisted. I don't see the need, unless you continue acting like this.
No one is agreeing with you, even the staff team on ts are saying you've been playing up.

Pelpelajax July 12, 2015 at 1:07 PM UTC

No one is agreeing with you, even the staff team on ts are saying you've been playing up.
That's good for them. Just so you're aware, I wasn't there when the decision was made.

emilizzle July 12, 2015 at 2:07 PM UTC

That's good for them. Just so you're aware, I wasn't there when the decision was made.
Avicus: Unbanning/modding people who fly in public matches/ actually hacks, banning a whole team because one guy had his BSM (which was allowed) on and used it for 2 seconds, 10 seconds before he got killed.

Ingigo July 12, 2015 at 2:07 PM UTC

Should of had this post BEFORE the quarter and semi finals.

Pelpelajax July 12, 2015 at 2:07 PM UTC

Should of had this post BEFORE the quarter and semi finals.
He didn't use BSM, he used a seperate client.

Tazz July 12, 2015 at 3:07 PM UTC

He didn't use BSM, he used a seperate client.
What do you mean by client?

Pelpelajax July 12, 2015 at 3:07 PM UTC

What do you mean by client?
Different Mod

Mooch24 July 12, 2015 at 3:07 PM UTC

i dont get how you guys can say BSM is legal and then get all salty because someone used it. its your fault for not being clear in the post or however you told the community. its not a players responsibility to ask the staff.

goobersquad

ProfessorUtonium July 12, 2015 at 3:07 PM UTC

i dont get how you guys can say BSM is legal and then get all salty because someone used it. its your fault for not being clear in the post or however you told the community. its not a players responsibility to ask the staff.

goobersquad
Http://avicus.net/rules


look at section C, number four

Sevoo July 12, 2015 at 4:07 PM UTC

Correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't toggle crouch stop crouching when you use an interface?

Iron July 12, 2015 at 4:07 PM UTC

Correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't toggle crouch stop crouching when you use an interface?
It depends. I believe you have to pick.

DonaldMyTrump July 12, 2015 at 5:07 PM UTC

Here's my take: BC would have won the game regardless. That being said, BC should have also made sure that all mods they were using were indeed legal. I also believe the tournament rules, mod restrictions and other such details should have been better handled by the officials and presented in a more organized and team friendly way. In my opinion keeping up with the tournament, it's updates and such was all a major bust. However there is no point whining about what has already happened. I think there should be an elected official who is in charge of presentation of the tournament on the forums. I also think that once a team registers for the tournament there should be a way of receiving messages about updates (through the player's alert page) notifying them of these things so that there is no excuse to miss it. Also if there is going to be the huge amount of different forum threads that tournament announcements are made across there needs to at least be one hub thread where users can navigate to the others. Also announcements should never be made on individual posts on threads.

Tazz October 18, 2015 at 11:10 AM UTC

Bumped because I believe that this is an important moment in Avicus history.

Capenage October 18, 2015 at 11:10 AM UTC

Bumped because I believe that this is an important moment in Avicus history.
nice one

NovaLikesPvP October 18, 2015 at 11:10 AM UTC

Bumped because I believe that this is an important moment in Avicus history.
I think this is a "Silly episode that the best avicus team had passed, But all their fault".