Hand Picked Staff
by
Pelpelajax
January 17, 2015 at 1:01 PM UTC
Hello there, Pelp here.
Recently, Fluenza brought up a topic in one of the group chats that hand pick staff may have its return. I offered to make a discussion thread, and here I am making it...!
So what is your opinion on this topic? Should we have hand picked staff as our primary recruitment system, and why? Or should we keep it as it is, and why?
I personally agree with 'Hand-Picked' staff as people can lie and be secretive in their apps, however when their being watched in-game it shows their true personality. But it does require more time and effort that way, but the advantages are worth it, I think.
In my opinion, I believe that we should keep the system we have, but if the Sr+ believes that a person could suit the staff team, they would invite him for an interview. This way it's balanced and gives everyone a fair chance.
In my opinion, I believe that we should keep the system we have, but if the Sr+ believes that a person could suit the staff team, they would invite him for an interview. This way it's balanced and gives everyone a fair chance.
I agree, Though all staff acceptances should be handled the same way, as in, take Map Developers - they are hand picked, whilst applications are held for junior Moderators. It should all be the same :o
I think a mix, because you should get a chance to really show off in your staff app, and if you get accepted, you need to be true to yourself in the interview. I think it would be good if moderators observed interviewee's in-game to see how they really act/behave.
Keep in mind, the applications process is a lengthy and stressful period for the senior staff. Sure, applications gives everyone a fair chance, but with a mixture (as ambi suggested), it definitely gives a variety within the staff recruitment process. Besides, we commonly mistake terrible grammar with foreign players trying their best to write a detailed application in english. This gives players from all different types of countries to really show themselves to the senior staff that they can help others by taking action instead of writing an application.
If I understand this thread correctly I disagree, I probably would never even get the chance to become staff becuase Im not known. There is probably a lot of players who would be 100 times better then the ones you pick.
Keep in mind, the applications process is a lengthy and stressful period for the senior staff. Sure, applications gives everyone a fair chance, but with a mixture (as ambi suggested), it definitely gives a variety within the staff recruitment process. Besides, we commonly mistake terrible grammar with foreign players trying their best to write a detailed application in english. This gives players from all different types of countries to really show themselves to the senior staff that they can help others by taking action instead of writing an application.
Opinions?
I think that it is either one, or the other. It would get confusing if we have both, but it is an interesting concept. I just don't think it would quite work. The problem with applications is that, this is the only time we look for potential staff members, without them, it would be a constant job, something I would very much like.
If I understand this thread correctly I disagree, I probably would never even get the chance to become staff becuase Im not known. There is probably a lot of players who would be 100 times better then the ones you pick.
Well, I'm sure everyone would have a good chance if they actually showed the community they deserve the staff rank... :P
If I understand this thread correctly I disagree, I probably would never even get the chance to become staff becuase Im not known. There is probably a lot of players who would be 100 times better then the ones you pick.
The progress wouldn't be rushed, and it is not about being know to the community, it is about the potential a staff member sees in you.
I think that it is either one, or the other. It would get confusing if we have both, but it is an interesting concept. I just don't think it would quite work. The problem with applications is that, this is the only time we look for potential staff members, without them, it would be a constant job, something I would very much like.
I'm positive that it will prove successful, the senior staff are more then capable of balancing the two options.
I think a mix, because you should get a chance to really show off in your staff app, and if you get accepted, you need to be true to yourself in the interview. I think it would be good if moderators observed interviewee's in-game to see how they really act/behave.
Also I think a lot of people would take mod way more serious if the actually got a chance. But ok, sometimes you need to try new things to see how it works out. Hopefully the staff team will choose wisely and do their best. As I am sure they will.
If we had both, it would pile up on the work they already do.
Doesn't matter, it's all about making the staff team efficient. In my opinion, I would put 110% effort in making the staff team efficient, this method would work both ways - 1 being fair and giving every single person a chance. And 2 a chance for the senior staff to pick players who they believe can do the right job.
I would agree with the majority of the people who posted on this thread. It is very easy to lie in an application and I'm sure that tons of people do it. So many of those members are actually as qualified for position as they may seem. I would love to see this return
Doesn't matter, it's all about making the staff team efficient. In my opinion, I would put 110% effort in making the staff team efficient, this method would work both ways - 1 being fair and giving every single person a chance. And 2 a chance for the senior staff to pick players who they believe can do the right job.
I disagree. The system we have currently is very good, because there is a little bit of hand-picking from the Sr Staff, but 3 have to agree, so that there is less of a chance of bias. Also, this system allows lesser known members to become staff. If 3 Sr. Staff like their application, then they are on the road to staff. But say they aren't that popular, but they would make great staff. They would never get picked! So, I say we stick with our current system.
I disagree. The system we have currently is very good, because there is a little bit of hand-picking from the Sr Staff, but 3 have to agree, so that there is less of a chance of bias. Also, this system allows lesser known members to become staff. If 3 Sr. Staff like their application, then they are on the road to staff. But say they aren't that popular, but they would make great staff. They would never get picked! So, I say we stick with our current system.
I was about to say this. The hand picked staff system can breed a lot of issues surrounding being biased. If a person who is aspiring to be mod befriends a senior mod, the senior mod may put him first over the others in terms of a priority list.
I disagree. The system we have currently is very good, because there is a little bit of hand-picking from the Sr Staff, but 3 have to agree, so that there is less of a chance of bias. Also, this system allows lesser known members to become staff. If 3 Sr. Staff like their application, then they are on the road to staff. But say they aren't that popular, but they would make great staff. They would never get picked! So, I say we stick with our current system.
They can be hand picked and 3 people need to agree on it then aswell..
This is great and all, but how would players get noticed? What if there is a person trying hard but nobody notices him?
Also, the Staff would have to spectate the person for more than a day. :p
The process isn't 1,2,3 weeks.. It takes time, the player has to have a good enough reputation to represent the server. The person who is a essentially going to be hand picked must grab the attention of the senior staff before the senior staff even begin looking at him/her.
Hold the usual apps and interviews. BUt if the staff see one person who shows the highest (and I mean THE highest) devotion to the server and its safety, then pick that person to be a mod. Hold no special announcements for their promotion until after. Furthermore, have the admins, and only the admins, choose that person. Therefore you'll get a high quality moderator chosen by the admins.
EDIT: They should also take into account one's infractions they have received. If you make someone with like 2 pages of infractions, it would just add to the suspicion of biaism
And what if the person doesn't want to be mod? The Senior staff team will just end up wasting their time looking at him/her :P
The mods aren't going to try hard the procces. In addition, it's a rare situation where a person denies the opportunaty to become a staff member. The senior staff aren't going to spectate the guy like how you would do it if it was a hacker, they will just moniter him. Plus, their is no such thing as "wasting their time", they are just doing their job.
Hand picked always works better. It means you're picking a truly good member who won't disappoint. Though, they might not be good with speaking to those older etc. so that could bring up a problem but the choice is there for them, not everyone wants staff (Though I'm not one those people as I like to help and keep order :P).
I think that this is quite a good idea. If the Sr. Staff notices that a certain player has been very helpful, friendly, and active with the community for a long period of time, that player should deserve a chance at becoming moderator, if they wish. I really like Ambi's idea, with having both systems (Hand-picked and applications). However, a problem with this idea is that the application requires that you must have "Excellent punctuation and grammar. You should be able to write a fluent application detailing why you deserve the position." If we were to use the hand-picked method, then this criteria would not apply.
Bias has such a heavy influence on who gets in and who doesn't. All It's going to cause is people on the forums and in-game to kiss ass all the time. It happens enough as it is when staff apps open. I'd probably die if it was happening all the time.
Bias has such a heavy influence on who gets in and who doesn't. All It's going to cause is people on the forums and in-game to kiss ass all the time. It happens enough as it is when staff apps open. I'd probably die if it was happening all the time.
Bias has such a heavy influence on who gets in and who doesn't. All It's going to cause is people on the forums and in-game to kiss ass all the time. It happens enough as it is when staff apps open. I'd probably die if it was happening all the time.
Bias has such a heavy influence on who gets in and who doesn't. All It's going to cause is people on the forums and in-game to kiss ass all the time. It happens enough as it is when staff apps open. I'd probably die if it was happening all the time.
+1
Only rarely should a member be hand-picked for mod.
After thinking about this for a while, I agree with mooch. A lot of players would probably just try to seem very mature when they are in the presence of a staff member, and I think that the application process means that you actually decide to take the time out of your day to write up a solid application. It just seems like writing an application would show that you really care about being a moderator. Also, writing the application is an important part, since it shows that your application can be written fluently, and you have no problem writing in English (which shows that you are able to communicate with others in-game and on the forums).
Bias has such a heavy influence on who gets in and who doesn't. All It's going to cause is people on the forums and in-game to kiss ass all the time. It happens enough as it is when staff apps open. I'd probably die if it was happening all the time.
For the most part that's true. There isn't a whole lot you can do to get around human nature.
Personally, I don't agree with this idea. I feel like the members closest to the staff are most likely to get staff, and like with what mooch said. Only well known members are going to get it, while a lot of not well known people are amazing and would serve as excellent staff members.
Take pel for example; not very well known at all, and not extremely close to any staff if I'm correct. He would never get hand picked, because he's not well known. He's one of the best staff members here in my opinion, and with hand picked he most likely wouldn't get chosen.
In my opinion I really think it should be a mixture of both.
Of course, it varies. With hand picked staff, it may be bias in a situation or people may be a stuck up to Mods to get a Interview. It happens enough as it is when staff apps open, with some people being try hards. If it did happen, it should be probably below 5 hand picked staff so it doesn't effect so much. People can still apply for Moderator, and the Staff team doesn't have to be all well known players before they become Staff Members.
Before you start disagreeing, hear me out first. Be sure to read eVERYTHING before you comment
I agree with the hand-picked system. Of course, it does have its flaws and such like the process being to slow and the fact that there could be bias or the amount of kissups and stuff. Here is what i have to say.
With my expeirence with the hand-pick staff system, it really works out pretty well. Compared to other servers, there is a great difference in the quality of the staff team. Please note that im not saying that Avicus staff team is inferior. Im saying that Servers with the hand-picked staff system would have a better quality staff team and heres why.
When hand-picking staff, the staff are constantly looking at players. These players can just help causually, send in reports like a good person. That person would defenitely deserve mod. However, if another person kiss-ups files reports, but says trash in chat and break the rules on purpose and the staff see's, that person would not be likely would be mod. Hand-picking staff reqires patience but you can really filter out the people who dont deserve it and the people that do.
About the bias part. Yes there can be some bias there in the system. However, when your promoting people to mods, the mods must promise or something that they will be unbias. The staff can have (if they have not) a seprate subforum that only staff can read. This will regard any personal opinons about server, gameplay, etc. that is not supposed to be showed to the real forums. The staff can propose one or 2 people to staff on the forum. The staff team must watch carfully by in game, forums, or chat logs to see what he-she does in game without staff watching (staff can have a hide feature or something idk). When its time to choose, a certain amount of votes from 5 or so staff that at least 3 may not know the person personally. That way, you can filter out things from being biased and such.
In the Overcast, the mods closest friends usually but sometimes get not choosen* (sorry i did not know till Notal told me D:). The staff that should choose would usually be the sr mod team, admins, or staff that do not know this person. Also, OCN does not neccasarly choose the most famous person in game or something. They look to see what the player Really does when the staff is not watching.
Also about the kiss-ups. Yes, i do not like them as well. I see some everyday in minecraft serrvers and they tick me off personally. However, if Avicus does start using the hand-pick staff system, there should be standards on like how to be mod.
For example. You can have an offical announcement saying the things THAT will help you be mod. This of course DOES NOT GUARANTEE TO HAVE AN OFFICAL STAFF POSITION. I would say
1. Helping other players in game 2. Being nice, calm, and mature in the community and in game 3. Reporting other players in game and using the forums 4. Following and purposely not break the rules.
These are just some basic ways to only HELP you get mod. It does not guarantee a positon. These are things that wont help you get mod
1.Purposelly breaking the rules 2. Not maintaing a calm and causually atmosphere 3. Being immature in game and in chat 4. Being friends with a mod and kissups to them
If your just being annoying and being kissups, IT WONT AFFECT YOUR CHANCES OF BEING MOD. Actually, your decreasing your chanes of getting it. Now personally, i dont see anything wrong with tryharding to be mod. If they really want to help the community, do not hinder them but you should do the same.
Also, if they do kiss up to much, the mod can just tell them to stop if its bothersome to them because their kissups and they would do anything a mod says would do
To conclude, the hand-picked system is a great system. ITs process is slow but the server can really benefit from this system. I think it should be mixed in a way. Like a person who wants to be mod sends a application but the people who applied will only be CONSIDERED to be a mod. Then, the hand-picked staff system comes in and see if their qualified enough. They will watch overthem constantly to see if they relly keep their word or not. OF course when choosing, they may choose other people that did not apply as well. That way, the people who did not apply still have a chance. The ones that do qualify have to go training, jr mod stuff, etc.. This is my opinion in this and i would love to see this play well. If Overcast is succesful with this, then so can Avicus
EDIT: And please note that i did not mean to say OVercast system is not bias. IT is somehow? idk but there will always be some type of bias when choosing the staff which is why i propose a mixed handpick/ staff app system
Before you start disagreeing, hear me out first. Be sure to read eVERYTHING before you comment
I agree with the hand-picked system. Of course, it does have its flaws and such like the process being to slow and the fact that there could be bias or the amount of kissups and stuff. Here is what i have to say.
With my expeirence with the hand-pick staff system, it really works out pretty well. Compared to other servers, there is a great difference in the quality of the staff team. Please note that im not saying that Avicus staff team is inferior. Im saying that Servers with the hand-picked staff system would have a better quality staff team and heres why.
When hand-picking staff, the staff are constantly looking at players. These players can just help causually, send in reports like a good person. That person would defenitely deserve mod. However, if another person kiss-ups files reports, but says trash in chat and break the rules on purpose and the staff see's, that person would not be likely would be mod. Hand-picking staff reqires patience but you can really filter out the people who dont deserve it and the people that do.
About the bias part. Yes there can be some bias there in the system. However, when your promoting people to mods, the mods must promise or something that they will be unbias. The staff can have (if they have not) a seprate subforum that only staff can read. This will regard any personal opinons about server, gameplay, etc. that is not supposed to be showed to the real forums. The staff can propose one or 2 people to staff on the forum. The staff team must watch carfully by in game, forums, or chat logs to see what he-she does in game without staff watching (staff can have a hide feature or something idk). When its time to choose, a certain amount of votes from 5 or so staff that at least 3 may not know the person personally. That way, you can filter out things from being biased and such.
In the Overcast, the mods closest friends usually but sometimes get not choosen* (sorry i did not know till Notal told me D:). The staff that should choose would usually be the sr mod team, admins, or staff that do not know this person. Also, OCN does not neccasarly choose the most famous person in game or something. They look to see what the player Really does when the staff is not watching.
Also about the kiss-ups. Yes, i do not like them as well. I see some everyday in minecraft serrvers and they tick me off personally. However, if Avicus does start using the hand-pick staff system, there should be standards on like how to be mod.
For example. You can have an offical announcement saying the things THAT will help you be mod. This of course DOES NOT GUARANTEE TO HAVE AN OFFICAL STAFF POSITION. I would say
1. Helping other players in game 2. Being nice, calm, and mature in the community and in game 3. Reporting other players in game and using the forums 4. Following and purposely not break the rules.
These are just some basic ways to only HELP you get mod. It does not guarantee a positon. These are things that wont help you get mod
1.Purposelly breaking the rules 2. Not maintaing a calm and causually atmosphere 3. Being immature in game and in chat 4. Being friends with a mod and kissups to them
If your just being annoying and being kissups, IT WONT AFFECT YOUR CHANCES OF BEING MOD. Actually, your decreasing your chanes of getting it. Now personally, i dont see anything wrong with tryharding to be mod. If they really want to help the community, do not hinder them but you should do the same.
Also, if they do kiss up to much, the mod can just tell them to stop if its bothersome to them because their kissups and they would do anything a mod says would do
To conclude, the hand-picked system is a great system. ITs process is slow but the server can really benefit from this system. I think it should be mixed in a way. Like a person who wants to be mod sends a application but the people who applied will only be CONSIDERED to be a mod. Then, the hand-picked staff system comes in and see if their qualified enough. They will watch overthem constantly to see if they relly keep their word or not. OF course when choosing, they may choose other people that did not apply as well. That way, the people who did not apply still have a chance. The ones that do qualify have to go training, jr mod stuff, etc.. This is my opinion in this and i would love to see this play well. If Overcast is succesful with this, then so can Avicus
EDIT: And please note that i did not mean to say OVercast system is not bias. IT is somehow? idk but there will always be some type of bias when choosing the staff which is why i propose a mixed handpick/ staff app system
I agree with the handpicked system, but saying OCN staff picking system isn't bias is completely wrong. xDino_Saurus and numerous other examples are only mod because of their friends in high places.
I agree with the handpicked system, but saying OCN staff picking system isn't bias is completely wrong. xDino_Saurus and numerous other examples are only mod because of their friends in high places.
i didnt really say it was not bias. With the system, there is bias and even probably in the staff apps. However, i propose that the staff looking at a person would have to
not know the person personally
idk it could work like the jury where the staff is the jury and they would have to be unbiased in someway. Like they must not know the person and the staff MUST commit that they wont choose them because they are donros and well known.
So ya, There will be bias but if we can adjust the system on how the hand-picked staff chosen, there should be less bias
Im sorry if you think that OVercast system is unbiased but it is biased when i looked at Notal's comment so sry avicus no8 pls
I've always thought hand-picked staff would work well.
That way, the staff team would know 100% who they're dealing with when they're watching a suitable player.
People lie and kiss up in their interviews only to have a better shot, a hand-picked system would allow staff to observe a player from a distance for a while and get to truely know who they are. Where as staff apps opens the flood gates a little too much, the Sr.Staff team are overwhelmingly engulfed in players. This could affect their judgement when picking.
A hand-picked system would make it easier to know what type of person the player is, without the hassle of dealing with several other hopefuls as well.
I've always thought hand-picked staff would work well.
That way, the staff team would know 100% who they're dealing with when they're watching a suitable player.
People lie and kiss up in their interviews only to have a better shot, a hand-picked system would allow staff to observe a player from a distance for a while and get to truely know who they are. Where as staff apps opens the flood gates a little too much, the Sr.Staff team are overwhelmingly engulfed in players. This could affect their judgement when picking.
A hand-picked system would make it easier to know what type of person the player is, without the hassle of dealing with several other hopefuls as well.
People lie and kiss up in their interviews only to have a better shot, a hand-picked system would allow staff to observe a player from a distance for a while and get to truely know who they are.
This +1. The hand-picked process can really filter out the people that deserve or do not deserve staff because Hand-picking staff see What the players really do when the staff is not really around
And to add on, even though it is bias and staff chose their friends to get in, It does not necasarly mean they would get mod. They would have to go to training and see what they do if there qualified.
For people saying that unpopular players wont get picked for staff, the Overcast Network currently has this hand-picked system and it works quite well.
I always see a mixture of popular and unpopular players get chosen. I remember a staff responding to a question like, "Why'd you pick them, I barely know them?" They said something along the lines of "We don't pick the most popular, we pick those who we believe are ready to become a staff member"
So I don't believe only popular players would benefit from a hand-picked system, because it clearly works on other servers.
i didnt really say it was not bias. With the system, there is bias and even probably in the staff apps. However, i propose that the staff looking at a person would have to
not know the person personally
idk it could work like the jury where the staff is the jury and they would have to be unbiased in someway. Like they must not know the person and the staff MUST commit that they wont choose them because they are donros and well known.
So ya, There will be bias but if we can adjust the system on how the hand-picked staff chosen, there should be less bias
Im sorry if you think that OVercast system is unbiased but it is biased when i looked at Notal's comment so sry avicus no8 pls
If we were to have hand picked staff, that's how I would do it. Similar to OCN, as I did some research (talking to a few of their senior staff) and they truly recommend it.
I'm seeing a lot of "if you befriend staff you'll get mod". My response to this is that it would almost seem impossible to befriend majority of the staff team. What if the MODERATORS had to "vote" and state their reasonings before the senior staff could even have a discussion on the topic? There are a lot more moderators than senior mods, so the votes would require a LOT of opinions, which shall affect the decision overall. (Yourmom1 suggested this too)
"What about kiss-ups?" Well to be quite frank with you, those people will simply not get picked. I hate those people too, and we'll tell them off if that's the case.
Well after all, aren't we supposed to moderate the Forums?
I'll try and bring staff into this thread discussion too.
If we were to have hand picked staff, that's how I would do it. Similar to OCN, as I did some research (talking to a few of their senior staff) and they truly recommend it.
I'm seeing a lot of "if you befriend staff you'll get mod". My response to this is that it would almost seem impossible to befriend majority of the staff team. What if the MODERATORS had to "vote" and state their reasonings before the senior staff could even have a discussion on the topic? There are a lot more moderators than senior mods, so the votes would require a LOT of opinions, which shall affect the decision overall. (Yourmom1 suggested this too)
"What about kiss-ups?" Well to be quite frank with you, those people will simply not get picked. I hate those people too, and we'll tell them off if that's the case.
Well after all, aren't we supposed to moderate the Forums?
I'll try and bring staff into this thread discussion too.
We had a hand picked system in MCZone, and... hornetjumper :p
But nah, I think it'll work, what you're proposing, but I think it'd be nice if you incorporate a system where someone proposes a player, two other people have to recommend that player, and then the rest vote on whether or not he approves. Not saying that's the whole process, but it could/would reduce a decent amount of bias.
I am personnaly from OCN and I found this server thanks to pelpel (thanks buddY :P ) and I really reccomend the hand picked staff.
1. power Hungry Proof: People that want to have a staff position can be realy good at applying without accually being good.
2. People that are a little known will be picked, the staff knows these people from reports and that shows that they are dedicated enough to do reports and help the server
3. Constant flow of new staff members. Since you pick your staff yourself you can pick as many as you want, you can pick one at the time and since you are going to look for good staff constantly you don't have to worry about deadlines
4. Staff won't be elitist since also no very popular people get chosen so you represent the community more with your staff team
I personally think that the application process is fine as it is. If someone lies or kisses up the Senior Moderators will either figure out their bluff in the interview or Junior mod trial period
I am in favour of combining staff applications and handpicked staff. Constantly having the hand picked staff as well as having staff applications open ever once in a while sounds like a pretty good way to get staff.
I am in favour of combining staff applications and handpicked staff. Constantly having the hand picked staff as well as having staff applications open ever once in a while sounds like a pretty good way to get staff.
I am in favour of combining staff applications and handpicked staff. Constantly having the hand picked staff as well as having staff applications open ever once in a while sounds like a pretty good way to get staff.
Well hypothetically we could just use both systems when there is a need for more staff. We don't have to recruit staff all the time, simply when we need to.
Well hypothetically we could just use both systems when there is a need for more staff. We don't have to recruit staff all the time, simply when we need to.
But will you still be looking for hand-picked staff after there are 40 interviewees from the application process?
It would make more sense to just make it harder to be accepted through the application and interview process and then open apps more frequently. Instead of doing both hand-picked and application. I could see as a huge pain. Make it harder to get in so only the best get accepted all the way.
But will you still be looking for hand-picked staff after there are 40 interviewees from the application process?
It would make more sense to just make it harder to be accepted through the application and interview process and then open apps more frequently. Instead of doing both hand-picked and application. I could see as a huge pain. Make it harder to get in so only the best get accepted all the way.
But mooch why not just handpick staff who THEN make an application?
But mooch why not just handpick staff who THEN make an application?
Because like I said a while ago, you'll just have an awful community. If the entire forum community is acting phony for a staff position nobody is going to be attracted to the server.
yes this a great idea because to have an application accepted is very hard.also you need to know what there personality is like and you coiuld use that by promoting them to mod jr.
But will you still be looking for hand-picked staff after there are 40 interviewees from the application process?
It would make more sense to just make it harder to be accepted through the application and interview process and then open apps more frequently. Instead of doing both hand-picked and application. I could see as a huge pain. Make it harder to get in so only the best get accepted all the way.
Not at once of course, but while applications are closed we could potentially hand pick staff (not in huge batches, but a couple here and there).
Staff get bored after a few months, but with hand picked staff, they will constantly meet new staff members!
Because like I said a while ago, you'll just have an awful community. If the entire forum community is acting phony for a staff position nobody is going to be attracted to the server.
That's where moderating could come in. There's a fine line between helping out, kissing up to staff and impersonating staff
In my opinion, I believe that we should keep the system we have, but if the Sr+ believes that a person could suit the staff team, they would invite him for an interview. This way it's balanced and gives everyone a fair chance.
It would have been common sense to think of this...
Not at once of course, but while applications are closed we could potentially hand pick staff (not in huge batches, but a couple here and there).
Staff get bored after a few months, but with hand picked staff, they will constantly meet new staff members!
If you do apps maybe every 2 months with very high expectations it will produce the exact same results when compared to hand-picking while still giving every player a fair chance.
Like I said before, if apps open with a relatively short time span in between there will be a constant flow of new staff.
Not at once of course, but while applications are closed we could potentially hand pick staff (not in huge batches, but a couple here and there).
Staff get bored after a few months, but with hand picked staff, they will constantly meet new staff members!
I think that this would be a very good idea because instead of waiting for apps to open again hopefully the staff will notice those doing good or extra for the server. Which I think is brilliant and do they start as a Jr Mod ?
Good Idea beings i would like to be staff once by recent punishment has worn off meaning i could maybe get MOD in the future maybe in couple months! I like it and puts less pressure on sr mod staff members!
If you do apps maybe every 2 months with very high expectations it will produce the exact same results when compared to hand-picking while still giving every player a fair chance.
Like I said before, if apps open with a relatively short time span in between there will be a constant flow of new staff.
If that was the case, I would never sleep. As it is now, I spend all day working with interviewees organising times, and discussing with senior staff interview times and what-not.
Senior staff need a break too, and having a shorter span between opening dates would really stress us out.
I think that this would be a very good idea because instead of waiting for apps to open again hopefully the staff will notice those doing good or extra for the server. Which I think is brilliant and do they start as a Jr Mod ?
If they are hand picked, then I assume that they should at least be given an interview.
If that was the case, I would never sleep. As it is now, I spend all day working with interviewees organising times, and discussing with senior staff interview times and what-not.
Senior staff need a break too, and having a shorter span between opening dates would really stress us out.
It's your staff team, definitely not mine.
All I'm saying is hand-picking is for third graders who are choosing who is cool enough to play hide-and-seek.
All I'm saying is hand-picking is for third graders who are choosing who is cool enough to play hide-and-seek.
I would rather get the communities input before making such a decision. Every opinion counts, and I'm just attempting to have a conversation about it :P
By kissing ass on the forums and in-game? Or is it good to boss people around and act like a staff member before you are one?
All current staff have proven themselves...
"By kissing ass on the forums and in-game? Or is it good to boss people around and act like a staff member before you are one?" I said this multiple times already, but that's where moderation comes into play. It can be moderated to an extent where players KNOW the difference between tryharding for staff, "kissing ass", helping other users kindly and impersonating staff.
"By kissing ass on the forums and in-game? Or is it good to boss people around and act like a staff member before you are one?" I said this multiple times already, but that's where moderation comes into play. It can be moderated to an extent where players KNOW the difference between tryharding for staff, "kissing ass", helping other users kindly and impersonating staff.
how will you know the difference between a tryhard and legit good person? If someone becomes mod and is trying their hardest aren't they in that case a good person to be mod? Won't your negative bias get in the way?
"By kissing ass on the forums and in-game? Or is it good to boss people around and act like a staff member before you are one?" I said this multiple times already, but that's where moderation comes into play. It can be moderated to an extent where players KNOW the difference between tryharding for staff, "kissing ass", helping other users kindly and impersonating staff.
I understand they have. But if the senior staff team is going to choose players and just throw them in as junior mods with this new system they might not have a clue what they're doing.
You can't honestly tell me the senior staff team is going to disregard people who strive to become staff members. That's a major chunk of staff candidates that will be wiped out.
how will you know the difference between a tryhard and legit good person? If someone becomes mod and is trying their hardest aren't they in that case a good person to be mod? Won't your negative bias get in the way?
tryhards usually want it because of their own selfish reasons. They want staff because they want to look prestegious. a Legit person only helps because it is his original intent to help others in need, without the fact that he might get mod.
Tryhards will tryhard when staff is around but when staff is not around, its where they show-off their true identies.
Ofcourse, not all tryhards are bad. If they are trying hard to help the server for a good intent (which is so helping the community) then tryharding can be good in a sense. I do not like tryharding when people only tryhard so they can look elite and not benefiting the server.
tryhards usually want it because of their own selfish reasons. They want staff because they want to look prestegious. a Legit person only helps because it is his original intent to help others in need, without the fact that he might get mod.
Tryhards will tryhard when staff is around but when staff is not around, its where they show-off their true identies.
Ofcourse, not all tryhards are bad. If they are trying hard to help the server for a good intent (which is so helping the community) then tryharding can be good in a sense. I do not like tryharding when people only tryhard so they can look elite and not benefiting the server.
Yes I am talking about the last part, and how bias would get in the way of perceiving them. He explicitly says he hates people who tryhard, so wouldn't that affect his perception of that type of people who are doing it purely for a good intent? If hand picking is supposed to lead to better mods then this wouldn't exactly support that idea...
Fluenza i have been on this server neary twice as long as you so i was here months before the big update so i know what is expected
If you are so keep on applying for a moderator position, you can do that the next time Staff Applications open up (That is if the hand picking method will not happen).
I understand they have. But if the senior staff team is going to choose players and just throw them in as junior mods with this new system they might not have a clue what they're doing.
You can't honestly tell me the senior staff team is going to disregard people who strive to become staff members. That's a major chunk of staff candidates that will be wiped out.
I said in one of my previous comment that it wouldn't be the senior staff who actually propose the candidate. The moderator team would actually vote upon themselves before discussing accordingly :P
I understand they have. But if the senior staff team is going to choose players and just throw them in as junior mods with this new system they might not have a clue what they're doing.
You can't honestly tell me the senior staff team is going to disregard people who strive to become staff members. That's a major chunk of staff candidates that will be wiped out.
when there choosen to be staff, a mod will inv prob on skype or something. the person thats been choosen would of course be given Jr. Mod to prove themselves. Hand-Picking staff does not really guarantee to be mod. Its like a consideration. The Jr.Mod have to go throug training and basics and at the end of the Period, mods will decide wheather or not this guy should be mod or not
I said in one of my previous comment that it wouldn't be the senior staff who actually propose the candidate. The moderator team would actually vote upon themselves before discussing accordingly :P
And how much will the opinions of senior staff sway the opinions of these moderators? It's a natural thing when you discuss things in groups that people flock to different sides, two extremes, though they may be more towards a middle ground. How you gonna deal with that?
And how much will the opinions of senior staff sway the opinions of these moderators? It's a natural thing when you discuss things in groups that people flock to different sides, two extremes, though they may be more towards a middle ground. How you gonna deal with that?
Mod opinions first, then senior staff would literally base theirs off the mods :P
Why not have the community decide upon the person whom the staff want to choose as a moderator. Therefore you can hear their opinions on the person. (excluding those that are just downright immature like all caps hackusating)
Just like testing an experiment, you have to have multiple trials to get the most accurate results.
As for the biaism, you're basically turning it against itself by having multiple possibly biaised people debate (not flame) over whether the person should be mod. Also, people who know the "chosen-one" personally can possibly give more information about the person's nature and behavior? There is absolutely no way of getting rid of biaism, but I feel like this should counteract it somewhat.
when there choosen to be staff, a mod will inv prob on skype or something. the person thats been choosen would of course be given Jr. Mod to prove themselves. Hand-Picking staff does not really guarantee to be mod. Its like a consideration. The Jr.Mod have to go throug training and basics and at the end of the Period, mods will decide wheather or not this guy should be mod or not
I just can't see the senior staff team training these people. I can easily see moderators taking the job.
The problem when you have now is that there are some mods who simply aren't cut out to teach or they are just you know kinda bad at their job (Not saying anyone is bad now. But you know down the road). So now you have a junior mod who has been taken under the wing and has been taught poorly. That poor lad is going to be demoted simply because he wasn't taught and given a fair opportunity.
Why not have the community decide upon the person whom the staff want to choose as a moderator. Therefore you can hear their opinions on the person. (excluding those that are just downright immature like all caps hackusating)
Just like testing an experiment, you have to have multiple trials to get the most accurate results.
As for the biaism, you're basically turning it against itself by having multiple possibly biaised people debate (not flame) over whether the person should be mod. Also, people who know the "chosen-one" personally can possibly give more information about the person's nature and behavior? There is absolutely no way of getting rid of biaism, but I feel like this should counteract it somewhat.
I would rather see the community being able to weigh in on how the junior mods are doing instead of choosing who is chosen to receive the position.
I just can't see the senior staff team training these people. I can easily see moderators taking the job.
The problem when you have now is that there are some mods who simply aren't cut out to teach or they are just you know kinda bad at their job (Not saying anyone is bad now. But you know down the road). So now you have a junior mod who has been taken under the wing and has been taught poorly. That poor lad is going to be demoted simply because he wasn't taught and given a fair opportunity.
So you are implying that all mods and sr. mods are not fit to teach a jr.? Do you have any solution to this predicament?
I just can't see the senior staff team training these people. I can easily see moderators taking the job.
The problem when you have now is that there are some mods who simply aren't cut out to teach or they are just you know kinda bad at their job (Not saying anyone is bad now. But you know down the road). So now you have a junior mod who has been taken under the wing and has been taught poorly. That poor lad is going to be demoted simply because he wasn't taught and given a fair opportunity.
This is where mentoring would be organised by the senior staff. Potentially, we could have the training with someone who knows what they're doing and is doing a superb job as a moderator.
Well then like I said they're gonna flock to extremes. It's just human nature. That's not properly fair. If you ask them for reasons they'll start adopting reasons from one side or another. It's gonna lead to skewed opinions.
This is where mentoring would be organised by the senior staff. Potentially, we could have the training with someone who knows what they're doing and is doing a superb job as a moderator.
Someone who is a phenomenal staff member doesn't mean they will be anywhere near as superb at teaching.
I would rather see the community being able to weigh in on how the junior mods are doing instead of choosing who is chosen to receive the position.
I agree with the former. The players should be able to report to the staff about the jr. mod's "functionality." This gives the mods a bunch more "eyes in the sky."
If a jr. mod were to fail on say, attending to a report and not upholding his/her responsibility without any staff seeing, they could easily, no offense, lie about their qualities. (Just like in their app, if they ever did.) If a player were to report that, then yeah, it would injure the jr.'s rep.
I want to add one more thing. If OCN can make this work, so can Avicus. Avicus has more potential because of its staff apps and if we combine it, the results theoratically should turn out pretty well.
Tryhards and kiss-ups do not neccsarly mean they have a higher chance of being a mod. Even though your "trying hard" just to make yourself look good to the staff, it wont be entirely based off of that. The staff could secretly be watching you to see how these "tryhards" or "kiss-ups" really act in game when the staff is not around. The staff can check your post, your chat logs, etc.. to see how they really act. Now if the staff sees a person tryharding but they are doing it not because for themselves but due to the fact they want to help the server, and this person does this continously and constantly throughout, he would most likely get choosen to be mod. I saw this in a thread and i sorta remebered what helps you and what does not help people get mod
Things that help but not limited to:
1. Filing in reports and using /report in game 2. Helping other players in the game and community 3. Following the rules and not breaking them 4. Be nice in game, and maintain a calm and causual atmosphere 5. Be mature 6. Have common sense 7. being active to help and support
Things that do not help you getting a mod
1. Bragging on what good you do in this server 2. Purposely breaking the rules, even though you clearly know them 3. Not being matture and not maintaining a calm and casual atmosphere. 4. Asking for mod 5.Telling the staff that if you were a mod, you would do great things.
These are some pretty basic standards though. Please read my post a couple pages back. ITs the lonng one. The main purpose of this process is : Wheather the person is a famous person, or some regular on Avicus, the procces will see what they do in game when the staff are not watching. That way, it shows their true identity.
Once their choosen to be staff, they will be invited to a chat room (skype or something) and there will begin a stage or training to prove them selves. Probably a month period long and if they dont cut out, they wont get it.
The Mod Selection process according how i would see it.
If however is combined with the staff apps, what Avicus can do is people will apply for staff that want to be. The people who sent applications will only be CONSIDERED to be mods. This does not guaratee that they are already a mod. Now this is where the Hand-picking comes in where they look at the people who applied and see how they act in game. The hand picking process can also pick other players who did not apply but they are worthy to be mod. There will be a majority vote from the staff that do not know this person and have not befriended. This would reduce bias from the staff and the staff can have a seprate subforum on deciding whos staff (this if they do not have a secret forum. Players cannot look at the subforum except staff) This process can filiter out the good applicants and the bad applicants because it shows who they really are w/o mods patroling in game and it brings out the quality of the player. Then comes jr.mod training and a month trial to see if there worthy or not.
We want quantity<quality
When staff are watching in the sidelines, they can probobly just vanish from regualr players but they cannot deal punishments, for they have to be not vanished. Just a suggestion. The only flaws to this system is hat the proccess is lengthy and there is some bias but i said a few words few pages back about that. Take a look
This is where mentoring would be organised by the senior staff. Potentially, we could have the training with someone who knows what they're doing and is doing a superb job as a moderator.
And how will you decide who is a superb moderator? And would not senior staff be superb moderators??? that's why they're senior mods innit?
It's not all about teaching directly, it's about setting a good example.
The hell? You want them to learn from observation? Not everyone learns that way man! If you want a good example you could pick any moderator, couldn't you? Why would you keep mods that aren't good examples?
And how will you decide who is a superb moderator? And would not senior staff be superb moderators??? that's why they're senior mods innit?
I will not state my reason on why sr. mods shouldn't teach directly, but I will say that because there are more moderators, the possibilities of having a good "example-setter" would be higher than in sr. staff.
The hell? You want them to learn from observation? Not everyone learns that way man! If you want a good example you could pick any moderator, couldn't you? Why would you keep mods that aren't good examples?
Well, I don't want to spoon feed them. They would need to learn to be independent too, and learn right from wrong.
Senior staff would train, correct, but as far as mentoring goes (constant) senior staff aren't active enough to do such trickery XD
What are the sr. staff's responsibilities relating to the server that prevent them from being active? I thought they were also in charge of dealing with reports and attained that rank b/c they were proficient in doing so?
Therefore they might have good chemistry and they pick their own fate.
What if the person they chose, as you said, were incapable of either teaching or setting an example? Even if there was chemistry, wouldn't that affect the jr.'s performance negatively?
Well, I don't want to spoon feed them. They would need to learn to be independent too, and learn right from wrong.
So you want them to make mistakes? You know how hard it is to be comfortable making mistakes if you're under training? It's no fun at all, and I don't think it'll be a very good idea unless you get them under a program where they're comfortable making mistakes.
What if the person they chose, as you said, were incapable of either teaching or setting an example? Even if there was chemistry, wouldn't that affect the jr.'s performance negatively?
They were able to choose. Sucks to be them if they choose a friend who wasn't fit to teach :^)
I was about to say this. The hand picked staff system can breed a lot of issues surrounding being biased. If a person who is aspiring to be mod befriends a senior mod, the senior mod may put him first over the others in terms of a priority list.
What if the person they chose, as you said, were incapable of either teaching or setting an example? Even if there was chemistry, wouldn't that affect the jr.'s performance negatively?
Hey, they gotta be responsible for themselves, at least that much is certain
I was about to say this. The hand picked staff system can breed a lot of issues surrounding being biased. If a person who is aspiring to be mod befriends a senior mod, the senior mod may put him first over the others in terms of a priority list.
That's a very strong point also say if I'm trying my hardest on the server and being as active as I can what happns is the SR. MODS don't notice what I'm doing !
so are all the new interviewees going to be scrapped?
If you're going to try it I'd wait till this batch of candidates are moderators or demoted.
No of course not! Haha, of course we'll wait until the interviews are all over and everyone has been given their results. It'll take a couple of weeks to implement too, so maybe we'll start sometime mid March? Depends how much we need staff! :P
Bias has such a heavy influence on who gets in and who doesn't. All It's going to cause is people on the forums and in-game to kiss ass all the time. It happens enough as it is when staff apps open. I'd probably die if it was happening all the time.
+1
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