Changes to the rotations?
by
keenanjt
June 13, 2016 at 1:06 PM UTC
We've been discussing this conundrum within certain staff groups recently. Along with the Atlas update, changes in the server rotations are going to be made because of both sheer necessity (changes in what game-modes we have to offer) but also out of the desire to improve the server. We all know that Destroy the Monument (DTM) is realistically the only game-mode actively played.
Understanding why other rotations aren't played is difficult to narrow down, but I might suggest these different possibilities (or the combination of them). I don't like to jump to the idea that DTM is the "most fun" or simply the "best" game Avicus has. While it may be true for some players, there are other factors contributing to its success as I see it.
DTM is played most because it is the most refined game-mode. It has had the most updates and changes, especially to the maps.
DTM is played most because it is the most understood game-mode.New players learn what DTM is quickly because it is the only game-mode they can join. Throwback for example is the most active rotation, and it houses almost entirely DTM maps. This ties into the next reason as well.
DTM is played most because it is the most played game-mode (perpetual). Other rotations are difficult to get started considering the minimum player counts are in place (with good reason). They also don't have the momentum to keep them going. How do players ever get to know and love the other games!?
We decided to open this discussion up to the forum community for suggestions. We want to know how you would organize the server. As we saw it, there are three options (any other ideas?), though an infinite number of possibilities through each.
Mixed rotations: All or nearly all of the servers on the network have a mixture of game-modes. The first map could be DTM, the next could be KOTH followed by another DTM, then CTW, etc. Naming could be back to how it was in the early Nebula stages with Greek names (for example).
Dedicated rotations: Each rotation is dedicated to a specific game-mode. It would be something like: 1 DTM rotation, 1 CTW rotation, 1 TDM rotation, 1 KOTH rotation etc. You would /server dtm or /server koth.
Mixed + dedicated rotations: Game-modes would get their own rotation, but there would also be mixed rotations. Note that our player count only gives us reason to have up to 7-10 servers, this would mean ~4-5 dedicated and ~3-4 mixed maximum.
There are pros and cons to each with the single goal of giving other game-modes a chance. While mixed rotations face the challenge of giving users a potentially more confusing experience (switching games every 15 minutes), dedicated rotations or mixed + dedicated rotations are much like what we have now and may not help to address the goal we have in mind. Mixed rotations would expose users to different games, while dedicated rotations offer a more cohesive experience.
I typed a lot, now what do you have to say? Do you want mixed, dedicated or a combination of both? Or do you have a different suggestion?
In my personal opinion, i think that mixed servers would be ideal. It's already apparent that dedicated rotations don't work. We have been doing something similar to dedicated rotations for a long time now and it's just constantly Throwback, same map after same map. It honestly isn't fun anymore. When you have played these maps for almost 3 years you will know what i mean. I like the concept of Throwback but honestly, in my opinion, the maps are stalemate and are terrible. I mean no offence to the authors, they were good maps in the past but now they are old and have had their days.
What I'm afraid about the most is after all the endless work the Developers do with creating Atlas, creating CTF, Arcade, Skywars and many other modules, that people will play them for a few days and then go back to Throwback. I think as a community we need to be more open to new concepts and ideas. Yes i understand that a lot of the old regulars like Throwback, but honestly, we need to try new things. Although rotations like throwback might appeal to the "Old Veterans", we need something that appeals to new players. Mixed rotations, in my opinion, would.
We use to do a mixture of dedicated and mixed servers and that didn't work either. It was still Throwback day in day out.
FIX THE COMPASSES IN WALLS PLEASe it used to be always filled three servers with about 10-15 people in each game, I think part of the decline was when avicus lost many active players, devs took their minds off games that others don't play as often, so the number just kept decreasing, but Walls is still played by many, I would like it to be what It used to be, with compasses fixed. Thanks for reading :)
FIX THE COMPASSES IN WALLS PLEASe it used to be always filled three servers with about 10-15 people in each game, I think part of the decline was when avicus lost many active players, devs took their minds off games that others don't play as often, so the number just kept decreasing, but Walls is still played by many, I would like it to be what It used to be, with compasses fixed. Thanks for reading :)
Also don't get off topic and contribute to the threads purpose instead of stating a whole other thing. This is about rotations. Not for asking issues to be fixed. Please keep this thread serious.
Maybe just have a quick play button that sends you to a mixed gamemode server. Or even have a system where theres a set number of servers for each gamemode (like we have now) and then have users rotating through ones that are still in a pre-match state.
I would choose option 3 - both. I believe that both will let each user enjoy what they like, if I like only KOTH then i would play koth only. and if i feel like mixing id go to the mix.
P.S: ive made so many ctf and koth maps and atlas xml documentation hasnt been added (and/or clearly added) about both of these. could you do that asap so i could xml all my maps, because i heard avicus xml is different to ocn one (is it true?))
I think both mixed and dedicated would be nice, so the real DTM addicts can still play what they want. Maybe a way to make the mixed ones more played, like a portal on spawn or anything like that, just for the mixed mode?
Do mixed rotations, it's really getting boring playing the same maps each time.. I haven't played some maps properly because they never come up in the rotations..
I think the Mixed + Dedicated Rotations would be most beneficial. But how about at least one Voted Rotation so the player majority can choose what map to be played next in the rotation (through a little, well possible big, magical coding of course). It is easy to predict that there may be a gamemode/map that will be constantly played a lot more, but perhaps the Mixed Rotations can change the players' minds on their favoring of maps. So why not, 4 Dedicated, 4 Mixed, and 1 Voted?
I think that there should be 4-5 mixed servers, however the way people choose their gamemode would be different.
The idea I had would be that there would be 4-5 servers cycling through the gamemodes in a set rotation: DTM-->CTW-->KOTH-->TDM etc. And that the servers would be staggered on that rotation: if server 1 was DTM then server 2 would be CTW and so on.
Thie way people could always play the gamemode they wanted.
I also thought that people could pick specific rotations. So they could pick DTM and if server 1 was DTM then it would put them on server 1, and then, when the game ended they would be switched to the current server playing on DTM.
Edit: lol, looking back I just realised that this wouldn't work as different games would finish at different times.
Four types of servers make sense to me: 1) Dedicated (at least for each game mode) 2) Mixed or 'surprise me' (1 server) 3) Voted (1 server) 4) Sandbox (1 server where you can tool around and it gets reset every 24 hours)
Comments:
If I play Nebula, I only like throwback maps because they are straight forward, simple, and easy to understand.
If a CTW maps comes up in the DTM rotation, I usually make a house because I don't like that gamemode...but having a TDM map is more enjoyable like Gladiator.
I miss the voted aspect of SG. We need that for other gamemodes too.
You lost so many players when you decided to 'go exclusive' and only have original maps. Bring back original SG and Walls maps and watch your player count improve. Test it!
Provide a sandbox server! There are so many player that want to take a break from 'PVP all the time' and just want to kick back and make a house, sculpture, structure, etc... In the past, I liked when you had the lobby be survival mode. I called it 'survival lobby', but having a dedicated server for just tooling around would be fun!! Even PVP players like to build or grow a garden every once in a while! Just protect spawn for like 30 x 30 blocks. Test this too!
I think the Mixed + Dedicated Rotations would be the best opition. The current rotation has the same maps like 5 months ago or more and actually a lot of community members are making so good maps.
also ive been wanting to play different maps/gamemodes recently but sine throwback is always being played (especially the DTM part of it) it would be nice to play some new/different gamemodes like CTW (which i play most lf the time during scrimmages), TDM, KoTH/5CP, CTF
Four types of servers make sense to me: 1) Dedicated (at least for each game mode) 2) Mixed or 'surprise me' (1 server) 3) Voted (1 server) 4) Sandbox (1 server where you can tool around and it gets reset every 24 hours)
Comments:
If I play Nebula, I only like throwback maps because they are straight forward, simple, and easy to understand.
If a CTW maps comes up in the DTM rotation, I usually make a house because I don't like that gamemode...but having a TDM map is more enjoyable like Gladiator.
I miss the voted aspect of SG. We need that for other gamemodes too.
You lost so many players when you decided to 'go exclusive' and only have original maps. Bring back original SG and Walls maps and watch your player count improve. Test it!
Provide a sandbox server! There are so many player that want to take a break from 'PVP all the time' and just want to kick back and make a house, sculpture, structure, etc... In the past, I liked when you had the lobby be survival mode. I called it 'survival lobby', but having a dedicated server for just tooling around would be fun!! Even PVP players like to build or grow a garden every once in a while! Just protect spawn for like 30 x 30 blocks. Test this too!
Thanks for considering all ideas!
This may be off-topic, but yeah, they could even add a small plotworld server for mapmaking... People would be able to see other's maps in progress, give them feedback/get inspiration and it would be a lot of fun ofcourse! Also, it would get lots of new builders to help the server out. Again, this may not be the right post to comment this on, but in my opinion it's a good idea :P
First, you have to do - ask yourself a question: would those old maps pass your requirements for new released maps? No? Delete them or allow changing.
Bring back Nebula as united server (mix DTM, CTW and TDM).
And so we get one server for each gamemode (Nebula, Nexus, CTH, Walls, SG, KoTH (different amount of hills), CTF, Sky Wars, Arcade, and other new gm?) and few (4-5) mix servers with short gamemodes (Nebula, KoTHs, CTF, CTH and Nexus(?))
I personally agree with the idea about sandbox area in the lobby. Also make rotations cycled, without server restart in the end, if it is possible.
Personally, I think the player count is too small to offer both dedicated and mixed rotations and expect at least one rotation from each style to be played continuously; exceptions during peak times, of course.
Here are some methods to fix the issue with public Avicus:
Move away from the Throwback maps, I understand that rotation may hold some of the best rated and most popular maps in the entire world of the DTM gamemode. However the rotation as a whole has become overused and has got to the point where it is incredibly stale for veteran players.
Focus on a certain gamemode on Saturday every week to promote it in an attempt to entice the player base to experiment with other gamemodes Avicus has to offer.
The played maps in general are not horrible gameplay and aesthetic/creativeness wise, they are just all the same gamemode, Destroy The Monument. It's the gamemodes, not the maps if you understand what I mean.
I know this a negative thought but, like Peter said, I have a horrible, itching feeling that just like SG and CTW- the longest anticipated and most hyped developments besides Avicore- were just played for a mere week or so before being abandoned and DTM being the only played gamemode; that KOTH and CTF will end up the same, except during competitive scrimmages.
Mixed+Dedicated since what Xuph/Eric stated before, if you wish to play a certain game mode you go to dedicated if feeling for a mix of game modes then go to mixed
In my personal opinion, i think that mixed servers would be ideal. It's already apparent that dedicated rotations don't work. We have been doing something similar to dedicated rotations for a long time now and it's just constantly Throwback, same map after same map. It honestly isn't fun anymore. When you have played these maps for almost 3 years you will know what i mean. I like the concept of Throwback but honestly, in my opinion, the maps are stalemate and are terrible. I mean no offence to the authors, they were good maps in the past but now they are old and have had their days.
What I'm afraid about the most is after all the endless work the Developers do with creating Atlas, creating CTF, Arcade, Skywars and many other modules, that people will play them for a few days and then go back to Throwback. I think as a community we need to be more open to new concepts and ideas. Yes i understand that a lot of the old regulars like Throwback, but honestly, we need to try new things. Although rotations like throwback might appeal to the "Old Veterans", we need something that appeals to new players. Mixed rotations, in my opinion, would.
We use to do a mixture of dedicated and mixed servers and that didn't work either. It was still Throwback day in day out.
(My own personal opinion)
This is essentially my opinion. There are not enough players for both dedicated and mixed servers.
I do think that the best Throwback maps should be included in the new mixed rotations, as well.
Maybe I'm the only who thinks this way, but what makes the Throwback maps so good?
I think that having a mixed server is the only way to get out of everyone just playing a single gamemode. That being said, it would be nice to add new DTM maps to the rot, so it's not mostly just Throwback maps with a few other game mode maps.
I don't think the server really has the player count to do a mixed server and a dedicated server. One would be played over the other, and as you said, DTM is the one always being played over the other.
Maybe I'm the only who thinks this way, but what makes the Throwback maps so good?
I think that having a mixed server is the only way to get out of everyone just playing a single gamemode. That being said, it would be nice to add new DTM maps to the rot, so it's not mostly just Throwback maps with a few other game mode maps.
I don't think the server really has the player count to do a mixed server and a dedicated server. One would be played over the other, and as you said, DTM is the one always being played over the other.
Throwback is the most liked because the maps there are old and classic, not because they have good gameplay.
People want to play nexus/ CTH but there is a fast hit glitch that makes it unplayable. It has been a problem for so long but you are too lazy to fix it
Throwback is the most liked because the maps there are old and classic, not because they have good gameplay.
From what I have noticed, people join throwback because it's being played. Players don't want to start their own match since they don't want to spam to get players.
From what I have noticed, people join throwback because it's being played. Players don't want to start their own match since they don't want to spam to get players.
That's pretty much what happens everyday during AEST. If no one is on throwback then they are either in CTH or not on the server at all.
People want to play nexus/ CTH but there is a fast hit glitch that makes it unplayable. It has been a problem for so long but you are too lazy to fix it
That isn't really the big issue as to why no one plays it. Walls and Survivial Games don't suffer from this glitch yet no one plays them. It's more of a fact that they either can't get matches going or it just gets boring after awhile.
From what I have noticed, people join throwback because it's being played. Players don't want to start their own match since they don't want to spam to get players.
People play Throwback because their favourite maps are on there. Remove Throwback and you will probably see people hating or asking "What happened to Throwback?". You can tell when Throwback goes down people really want it back up
People play Throwback because their favourite maps are on there. Remove Throwback and you will probably see people hating or asking "What happened to Throwback?". You can tell when Throwback goes down people really want it back up
That isn't always the case. There are a lot of people who don't like throwback and would rather play other games but can't.
That isn't really the big issue as to why no one plays it. Walls and Survivial Games don't suffer from this glitch yet no one plays them. It's more of a fact that they either can't get matches going or it just gets boring after awhile.
The fast hit is actually really annoying, it is a big issue why people don't play Nexus or CTH. This is one reason why I don't play them often
That isn't always the case. There are a lot of people who don't like throwback and would rather play other games but can't.
I'm saying a lot of people like Throwback. The reason it hasn't been removed, I believe, is because people like the maps and you don't want to remove maps that people like. I remember Robin trying to get rid of them, but there are always people who are against it.
I'm saying a lot of people like Throwback. The reason it hasn't been removed, I believe, is because people like the maps and you don't want to remove maps that people like. I remember Robin trying to get rid of them, but there are always people who are against it.
Yes, and what I'm saying is that there are also a lot of people who have had enough of throwback. If people like the maps then the ones that actually meet criteria can be put into the different mix servers.
I'm interested, why is Throwback still here and why without any changes? Who prohibited them? Of course, it is rhetorical qustion. If you love it, let it go... in the past.
I think if you would change the throwback rotations or replace some maps, most players won't even notice... They just play Throwback, because they're used to playing on that server, not because they like the maps.
That isn't really the big issue as to why no one plays it. Walls and Survivial Games don't suffer from this glitch yet no one plays them. It's more of a fact that they either can't get matches going or it just gets boring after awhile.
i actually disagree with this. cth was always popular before this glitch, and if someone wanted to play walls or sg they wouldnt be playing it on avicus anyway. cth is a good gamemode with potential but it needs a bit of attention with regards to kits (tnt and enderman can be abused a lot) and ofcourse the fhg needs to be fixed
i actually disagree with this. cth was always popular before this glitch, and if someone wanted to play walls or sg they wouldnt be playing it on avicus anyway. cth is a good gamemode with potential but it needs a bit of attention with regards to kits (tnt and enderman can be abused a lot) and ofcourse the fhg needs to be fixed
i gotta agree with alex, SG and Walls isnt really a gamemode someone would play on Avicus, and considering that the SG scene is starting to die down, might as well remove SG, as for walls idk but thats up to you guys (Sessp and Kylo) if you're still willing to keep it as a gamemode on avicus.
back to the cth thing, yes i actually missed playing this alot back around a year ago, now it barely has any games happening nowadays, maybe if you can come up with something like idk maybe a tourney that maybe attracts alot of the regulars to try and play for (yes im referring to the regulars who aren't in a team/ dont scrim) and also might wanna nerf the kits just a tad bit
i gotta agree with alex, SG and Walls isnt really a gamemode someone would play on Avicus, and considering that the SG scene is starting to die down, might as well remove SG, as for walls idk but thats up to you guys (Sessp and Kylo) if you're still willing to keep it as a gamemode on avicus.
back to the cth thing, yes i actually missed playing this alot back around a year ago, now it barely has any games happening nowadays, maybe if you can come up with something like idk maybe a tourney that maybe attracts alot of the regulars to try and play for (yes im referring to the regulars who aren't in a team/ dont scrim) and also might wanna nerf the kits just a tad bit
We already decided what we would be removing, you will have to wait and see :)
Latest release date would be end of this month, definitely before July ( I hope). I don't actually have a date, but it's ASAP. It's the top of our agenda. It's overdue by a month already so we really want to get it out there.
The code itself is done, it's just the maps. We don't have enough maps converted to XML...
Latest release date would be end of this month, definitely before July ( I hope). I don't actually have a date, but it's ASAP. It's the top of our agenda. It's overdue by a month already so we really want to get it out there.
The code itself is done, it's just the maps. We don't have enough maps converted to XML...
You may ask help of the community. There are some ppl, who know XML too
Latest release date would be end of this month, definitely before July ( I hope). I don't actually have a date, but it's ASAP. It's the top of our agenda. It's overdue by a month already so we really want to get it out there.
The code itself is done, it's just the maps. We don't have enough maps converted to XML...
I would help you XML if the docs were clearly written and have more examples.
Latest release date would be end of this month, definitely before July ( I hope). I don't actually have a date, but it's ASAP. It's the top of our agenda. It's overdue by a month already so we really want to get it out there.
The code itself is done, it's just the maps. We don't have enough maps converted to XML...
I'd love to be able to help actually, if that's possible :P
Mixed and dedicated please. No one plays SG or CTW anymore, its always only DTM, and I want to experience a change/not just playing the same thing over and over.
Mixed and dedicated please. No one plays SG or CTW anymore, its always only DTM, and I want to experience a change/not just playing the same thing over and over.
thats not true, a lot of people play ctw. of course its more common in scrims, but i guess along with tdm thats the 2nd most played gamemode.
Didn't read much cause lazy but maybe a dtm and ctw rot, a rot with nexus, cth and tdm an possibly a rot with sg, walls, and skywars (idk the possibility of skywars being added but I remember a post about someome messing with skywars)
I would "Bribe" players to play other gamemodes. For instance if you look at the stats and see that hunger games for example was the lowest played game this week, you could make hunger games have 2 times the amount of credits and rewards. This way the people who push for credits play more different types of gamemodes. You could even go as far and slowly lower the amount of points gained from the more played games.
I also feel that getting rid of Throwback and sprinkling all the maps across the other nebula servers would also work well.
Also having more low key tournaments that include walls, HG, etc would encourage the teams to look for players who are skilled in these games causing the players to learn certain strategies and such from the game by playing them.
I feel like the mixed gamemode is a good idea, but dont integrate all of the servers. leave some how they are (The servers with longer games: Walls, hg, etc.)
Nicely said. I am not bored of the maps, however, I really agree on the idea that we should have rotations. Like this, people can not only enjoy all the games, but Avicus could be a more "well-known" server. When I, and other people film Avicus, it would be great if it could show not only DTM, but CTW, KOTH, and etc.
But I think that people would enjoy more if we had this rotation. That is my opinion. xD
Mixed and dedicated. It gets a little boring playing DTM over and over instead of new gamemodes. CTW is my favorite gamemode, so mixed would allow that and other gamemodes for people to enjoy
You can help if you want to, as well. Add me on skype: miaeeno.
Heyo because you're a map rev i hav a suggestion.
Quant00s has 2 monuments, which are basically impossible to get because of the map being a bowspam heaven and the monuments being really far away. Make it 3 monuments like Ternio, like a triangle and make the left and right monuments closer. That way games will be less stalemate.
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