Racism Punishments by AtditC January 9, 2017 at 6:01 PM UTC
Ok. You get a 14 days ban for saying the n-word in public chat once and you get a warn/kick for saying things like "kill yourself".I understand that racism isn't tolerated, but a 14 days ban for only one word, really? You won't even get warned or kicked (of course you should know that racism isn't allowed) but A FREAKING 14 DAYS BAN? That's an overkill. What do you think, if a black person sees the word n-word in chat, will he care? For the first time, probably not. If someone however would tell him to kill himself, will he care? Yes, and he will get much more offended.
Imagine a player who writes: "Do you have some gaps for me, my n****?" or idk, something like that, and a player who has a Hitler Skin and spams swastikas in chat and goes hardcore nazi. Both get a 14 days ban for racism? Seems very legit to me!
If it was after me, I'd first warn/verbally warn, 12h tempban, 7d tempban and finally perm ban a player which is verbally being racist and 14d tempban and then perm ban a player who goes hardcore racist and actually offends people directly.
The punishment guidelines for racism have to be updated and split into two categories or even more.
Opinions?
This is just my opinion on it and I don't mean to harm anyone with this post.
Lycorais January 9, 2017 at 6:01 PM UTC
It depends if you mean it like a joke to a friend or someone befriened it should not be punished at all in my opinion , but a staff could give a warning but not any higher in my opinion aswell.I really understand the staff team wants no-one to be discriminated, but 14 days is too much.
I'd rather say:
-for a guy which just says this as a joke to someone berfriended = Warning not any higher
-for a guy which really means it but eventually stops = a tempban of 12 h till 2 days depending what he says and how long he goes on
-If a guy will go on and wont stop i'd say =a tempban of 2 days till 1 week depending what he says and how long he goes on
AtditC January 9, 2017 at 6:01 PM UTC
It depends if you mean it like a joke to a friend or someone befriened it should not be punished at all in my opinion , but a staff could give a warning but not any higher in my opinion aswell.
I really understand the staff team wants no-one to be discriminated, but 14 days is too much.
I'd rather say:
-for a guy which just says this as a joke to someone berfriended = Warning not any higher
-for a guy which really means it but eventually stops = a tempban of 12 h till 2 days depending what he says and how long he goes on
-If a guy will go on and wont stop i'd say =a tempban of 2 days till 1 week depending what he says and how long he goes on
RATTLEWARRIOR January 9, 2017 at 7:01 PM UTC
Dis u just assume the examples gender in paragraph 2?Capenage January 9, 2017 at 8:01 PM UTC
Even if it's a ''joke'' meant to a friend or so, it's hard for the staff members to know if it was a joke and if the players involved are friends. So i guess in these situations it can be hard sometimes to tell if it was a joke or not.And since racism isn't tolerated, the staff who punished this player wen't by the rules and then banned him, in this case a 2 week ban.
This is something that i'd love to see being discussed, how hard you should react to someone saying, for example: ''Ey thats ma nigga'' or something like that.
Spartemex January 9, 2017 at 8:01 PM UTC
A non black person saying the n-word is not okay at all, and we do adapt to the situation, varying our punishment. Usually when people say that it's in offensive context, or if it's by itself its intended to troll. If someone's is saying "my n-word" then they're most likely not trying to offend anyone, and I'll tell them to keep chat appropriate, and ask the person they were talking to if they were offended. Like I said, we adapt, and realize that different uses call for different responses.AtditC January 9, 2017 at 8:01 PM UTC
A non black person saying the n-word is not okay at all, and we do adapt to the situation, varying our punishment. Usually when people say that it's in offensive context, or if it's by itself its intended to troll. If someone's is saying "my n-word" then they're most likely not trying to offend anyone, and I'll tell them to keep chat appropriate, and ask the person they were talking to if they were offended. Like I said, we adapt, and realize that different uses call for different responses.
Spartemex January 9, 2017 at 8:01 PM UTC
Did you read my entire post? What about the comparison?
DaGoldBrick January 9, 2017 at 9:01 PM UTC
A non black person saying the n-word is not okay at all, and we do adapt to the situation, varying our punishment. Usually when people say that it's in offensive context, or if it's by itself its intended to troll. If someone's is saying "my n-word" then they're most likely not trying to offend anyone, and I'll tell them to keep chat appropriate, and ask the person they were talking to if they were offended. Like I said, we adapt, and realize that different uses call for different responses.
they all have the same programmed retarded punishment pattern (shoutout presidentbadger, kid is like 14 and doesn't have the ability to tell jokes apart :^) )
"A non black person saying the n-word is not okay at all" and u can tell this how?
"my nigga" should not be bannable or mutable period
TooSweetSki January 9, 2017 at 9:01 PM UTC
This one can be tricky at times, considering every situation is different and racism is a very serious topic.If someone has said something that could be considered insulting then I personally would verbal warn them so that they know what they said shouldn't be said.
However, direct and intentional racism should result in anything from a kick to a temp ban depending on the severity.
The guidelines are just that, guidelines. They are not a ruleset.
A 14-day temp ban for unintentional racism (I.e joking with friends) is extremely harsh, which is why Moderators need to be alert 100% of the time when Moderating.
An infraction's purpose isn't solely to punish users, it's to teach them that what they are doing is wrong.
I believe that if communication is achieved and maintained by the staff member and community member prior to a ban or any punishment for that matter, we'll see a lot less hostility between the staff and community.
Straight up punishing people without talking to them first doesn't always work.
But talking to people about how they are breaking rules in any given situation (before deciding to give out infractions) will be beneficial for everyone involved.
Sevoo January 9, 2017 at 9:01 PM UTC
A non black person saying the n-word is not okay at all, and we do adapt to the situation, varying our punishment. Usually when people say that it's in offensive context, or if it's by itself its intended to troll. If someone's is saying "my n-word" then they're most likely not trying to offend anyone, and I'll tell them to keep chat appropriate, and ask the person they were talking to if they were offended. Like I said, we adapt, and realize that different uses call for different responses.
Avys January 9, 2017 at 9:01 PM UTC
I could just be sharing my soft, tender, moist memes.BoldAndBrash January 9, 2017 at 9:01 PM UTC
nobody who is staff on avicus has the ability to adapt
they all have the same programmed retarded punishment pattern (shoutout presidentbadger, kid is like 14 and doesn't have the ability to tell jokes apart :^) )
"A non black person saying the n-word is not okay at all" and u can tell this how?
"my nigga" should not be bannable or mutable period
@OP I punish racism depending on the severity of the comment; I kick if it's a comment such as somebody calling another user a nigger, and give a tempban if it's worse. A bit of flawed system on my part, so I'll fix it from no way on, thanks. :)
Numberz_ January 9, 2017 at 10:01 PM UTC
It's been a long time since I've been salty towards the Avicus staff team, but DAMN they have no set idea what racism is and what isn't. And the ways they punish for it can't be anymore inconsistent than it already is.From what I was told before it was suppose to be a verbal warn, then a kick. If they came back and continually did it, the user would be temp-banned. Do it after coming back form the temp-ban you get a nice permban. Now apparently, this changed without staff addressing it. I have seen a player recently get temp-banned for 14 days for saying the n-word ONCE. NO WARNINGS. NO KICK. Just straight up temp-ban for two weeks without any previous infractions. Where's the consistency? Regular Avicus players get away with a verbal warn if they say things like "help me my *****", they stop and don't do it again. But if someone that is newish to the server does it they get punished without warnings. I understand they could just be another troll but you still need to treat every one the same...
And another thing for racism directed towards cultures, countries and religions, MAKE SURE IT IS ACTUALLY RACISM. Don't just punish a player if YOU think it sounds wrong. Things can get taken in wrong way too often in today's society. I was recently punished for saying players weren't hacking because they were Spanish. That wasn't meant to sound racist or rude, but I understand it could be taken in the way after I had already said it. I apologized for it, appealed it, but the moderator denied it because of biased reasoning's. It's a /warn "oh big deal", in my books getting a punishment for something simple when another player goes unpunished or verbally warned in global chat or via /msg is completely unfair. You either punish fairly at all times or quit being a staff member.
Also, release the moderator guidelines so players can actually see what kinds of punishments you get for breaking certain rules.
Junr January 9, 2017 at 11:01 PM UTC
Just to point out, Suicide Encouragement was a 14d ban originally, but was changed if you aren't awared. Personally, I saw people complained too much that it was strict, so it was changed to what it is now. I think racism and suicide encouragement should at least be at an equal serverity of a punishment and not different.Goodnighht January 9, 2017 at 11:01 PM UTC
Just to point out, Suicide Encouragement was a 14d ban originally, but was changed if you aren't awared. Personally, I saw people complained too much that it was strict, so it was changed to what it is now. I think racism and suicide encouragement should at least be at an equal serverity of a punishment and not different.
Also to all the other comments- There comes a point where even if words like "n****" are used in a non-racist way that it will become overused, and eventually create a bad environment on Avicus as a whole, and leave a bad impression on new players. For now, at least, this needs to stay punishable, in whatever way you say it. Not only for the growth of the server, but also just as an overall rule. As of right now, a few rules say "appropriate for all ages" such as the inappropriate name rule. If a name should be appropriate for all ages then so should chat. There's a very weird line between some rules like that, and it becomes a problem with punishments and with communication with community and staff. If one rule says something, then it should be a basic guideline for all rules, not just that one.
Spartemex January 10, 2017 at 12:01 AM UTC
I would just like to revise my earlier comment to basically say I agree there should be more awareness of what should be punished and how. There's a difference between using the n-word as a term for one another, and targeting comments using that term. The former should be handled verbally if at all, and the latter punished severely.
DaGoldBrick The reason I say non-black people can''t say the n-word, is because they can't know the impact it can have. They don't know what it's like to be called that negatively, and therefore, they don't have the right or knowledge on how to use it without rudeness. You can't know the impact of your words unless you've experienced them. That's just the safe way to go in my opinion.
profbananaslug January 10, 2017 at 12:01 AM UTC
I would just like to revise my earlier comment to basically say I agree there should be more awareness of what should be punished and how. There's a difference between using the n-word as a term for one another, and targeting comments using that term. The former should be handled verbally if at all, and the latter punished severely.
isn't that racism???
Spartemex January 10, 2017 at 12:01 AM UTC
wait so black people can use the n-word but white people can't?
isn't that racism???
lactify January 10, 2017 at 12:01 AM UTC
I should have a say in this since I am black lol. RightFirst off, I will be honest. I used the term before, both directed and as a joke. I haven't been punished for it, despite staff being online. However, if I was to say it, I would probably be punished.
Anyway, I agree with Atdit. 14 days just saying the n word? What? Do you want to drive players away like that? It depends of HOW it will be phrased. Let's say that some randy joins, connects to the DTM server and says it. I cant just be offended straight away, since idk if he is Black, Asian or White. But it should get a warn from a mod. But if they said "kill all ngs". That is not racism to start with, thats discrimination. Immidiately, I will take offence, this this therefore deserves a kick at the lowest punishment. A warn imo gets them off lightly as they clearly intended to say it.
And for the above scenario, if no staff are on, then I will just report.
Regardless, I have been online before, with staff on, and yet a player is saying ngs but nothing happened. While I can report, I thought the staff would have handled it. Oh well
to recap: Shouldnt be ridiculously punishable unless used in a horrible way.
Okiba January 10, 2017 at 12:01 AM UTC
wait so black people can use the n-word but white people can't?
isn't that racism???
profbananaslug January 10, 2017 at 12:01 AM UTC
no its discrimination!!!!!
Okiba January 10, 2017 at 12:01 AM UTC
i hope the black crusaders don't come after any of us
yummys January 10, 2017 at 2:01 AM UTC
Yeah I do think the racism punishment is a bit over the top, because it is just an online game and people say things out of rage, also people shouldn't take those kinds of things seriously on a game.GrapeSmoothie January 10, 2017 at 7:01 AM UTC
You understand the difference between the -er ending and the -a ending correct? And how one is more offensive than the other but they can kinda both fall under that same category. I don't find offense to the -a ending (anyone who has me on sc knows what I mean, lol) but it doesn't excuse anyone of any race running around saying it.SmokeJamo January 10, 2017 at 9:01 AM UTC
I mean it's the Internet do they expect people to be nice?Capenage January 10, 2017 at 10:01 AM UTC
I should have a say in this since I am black lol. Right
First off, I will be honest. I used the term before, both directed and as a joke. I haven't been punished for it, despite staff being online. However, if I was to say it, I would probably be punished.
Anyway, I agree with Atdit. 14 days just saying the n word? What? Do you want to drive players away like that? It depends of HOW it will be phrased. Let's say that some randy joins, connects to the DTM server and says it. I cant just be offended straight away, since idk if he is Black, Asian or White. But it should get a warn from a mod. But if they said "kill all ngs". That is not racism to start with, thats discrimination. Immidiately, I will take offence, this this therefore deserves a kick at the lowest punishment. A warn imo gets them off lightly as they clearly intended to say it.
And for the above scenario, if no staff are on, then I will just report.
Regardless, I have been online before, with staff on, and yet a player is saying ngs but nothing happened. While I can report, I thought the staff would have handled it. Oh well
to recap: Shouldnt be ridiculously punishable unless used in a horrible way.
Capenage January 10, 2017 at 10:01 AM UTC
I mean it's the Internet do they expect people to be nice?
Capenage January 10, 2017 at 10:01 AM UTC
Yeah I do think the racism punishment is a bit over the top, because it is just an online game and people say things out of rage, also people shouldn't take those kinds of things seriously on a game.
You still gotta control yourself, and even if it's just a game and players shouldn't take it too seriously, they can still react to any offensive comments.
AtditC January 10, 2017 at 11:01 AM UTC
.
joelous January 10, 2017 at 1:01 PM UTC
Hey,We are well aware - as a staff team - the controversy surrounding this specific issue, and where to draw the line. There has been some forms of inconsistencies and we are working towards ensuring we get a fair result 99% of the time. A staff meeting is due this, or next weekend and this will definitely be a talking point.
At this stage, it is hard for us to go through different scenarios where an illegal word may be used, and where it may not be. Some meanings are unclear, and the guidelines are very broad that don't cover context. However, we need to ensure that the chat is friendly and safe for everyone as we cannot assume their race, gender or beliefs.
As for suicide encouragement, we strictly do not tolerate behaviour where someone may feel threatened - even in the slightest - or uncomfortable with the environment they are put in. Saying to someone "it is the internet, get over it", is very dismissive and ignorant to people who are suffering from larger problems then we are. We are unable to understand what they are going through, because we aren't experiencing it. Playing Minecraft or browsing the internet may be their escape from the troubles.
We are willing to hear what everyone else is saying, but please do not complain about a punishment you have received in the past.
rememes January 10, 2017 at 5:01 PM UTC
This is a Golden Pepe, this is very rare and is a dieing species, treat with caution.
AtditC January 10, 2017 at 5:01 PM UTC
.
AtditC January 10, 2017 at 5:01 PM UTC
Hey,
We are well aware - as a staff team - the controversy surrounding this specific issue, and where to draw the line. There has been some forms of inconsistencies and we are working towards ensuring we get a fair result 99% of the time. A staff meeting is due this, or next weekend and this will definitely be a talking point.
At this stage, it is hard for us to go through different scenarios where an illegal word may be used, and where it may not be. Some meanings are unclear, and the guidelines are very broad that don't cover context. However, we need to ensure that the chat is friendly and safe for everyone as we cannot assume their race, gender or beliefs.
As for suicide encouragement, we strictly do not tolerate behaviour where someone may feel threatened - even in the slightest - or uncomfortable with the environment they are put in. Saying to someone "it is the internet, get over it", is very dismissive and ignorant to people who are suffering from larger problems then we are. We are unable to understand what they are going through, because we aren't experiencing it. Playing Minecraft or browsing the internet may be their escape from the troubles.
We are willing to hear what everyone else is saying, but please do not complain about a punishment you have received in the past.
btw I didn't get a punishment for racism, not me! :p
This here is what triggered me: https://avicus.net/punishments/666173 (He only said the n-word once in public chat.)
PieZ January 10, 2017 at 5:01 PM UTC
Slurs in general is a topic that we need to fix up. Some slurs are too lenient while some need to be defined more.profbananaslug January 10, 2017 at 7:01 PM UTC
.
KojaCola January 10, 2017 at 9:01 PM UTC
I think you have a point here. A 14 day ban is a bit ridiculous. Maybe following the "encouraging suicide" punishment might be the right way to go.resepignev January 10, 2017 at 11:01 PM UTC
Make both punishments (suicide encouragement and racism) 14 day bans. And it shouldn't matter if it's a joke or not. Just because you interpret it as joke, doesn't mean someone else interprets it in a harmful way.kycrafft January 10, 2017 at 11:01 PM UTC
Make both punishments (suicide encouragement and racism) 14 day bans. And it shouldn't matter if it's a joke or not. Just because you interpret it as joke, doesn't mean someone else interprets it in a harmful way.
resepignev January 10, 2017 at 11:01 PM UTC
As an instant punishment, though? Like, a 14 day ban straight away?
resepignev January 10, 2017 at 11:01 PM UTC
You shouldn't have touched the internet in the first place of you're that triggered by some random saying useless shit that doesn't affect you online. I've been on the internet since I was 6 and I was less of a pussy back then compared to the triggered faggots who infest the internet today.
I hope you can distinguish between my opinion and a justification why the punishment should be changed.
Goodnighht January 11, 2017 at 12:01 AM UTC
Make both punishments (suicide encouragement and racism) 14 day bans. And it shouldn't matter if it's a joke or not. Just because you interpret it as joke, doesn't mean someone else interprets it in a harmful way.
AtditC January 11, 2017 at 1:01 AM UTC
Make both punishments (suicide encouragement and racism) 14 day bans. And it shouldn't matter if it's a joke or not. Just because you interpret it as joke, doesn't mean someone else interprets it in a harmful way.
yummys January 11, 2017 at 2:01 AM UTC
Even if people just say things out of rage, doesn't mean they have any right to say anything offensive, or racist.
You still gotta control yourself, and even if it's just a game and players shouldn't take it too seriously, they can still react to any offensive comments.
Capenage January 11, 2017 at 7:01 AM UTC
Yeah I agree that they shouldn't say it but still just ignore the person saying it
AtditC January 11, 2017 at 10:01 AM UTC
Yeah of course, but it's easy to say than it's to do. People are different and some might not care about it, but some probably will care and get offended and such.
DaGoldBrick January 11, 2017 at 1:01 PM UTC
That's great that "you've been on the internet since I was 6 and I was less of a pussy back then". It truly is amazing, but I never mentioned that I get offended by it, I just stated that there are players out there that interpret the joke in a harmful way, therefore the punishment should be changed to a 14 day tempban in order to protect them.
I hope you can distinguish between my opinion and a justification why the punishment should be changed.
only genuine racism should be mutable, if you mute somebody for saying "my nigga" you're just an idiot
AtditC January 11, 2017 at 2:01 PM UTC
and I said if they interpret it in a harmful way they shouldn't be logging on the internet and onto a public minecraft server through the internet, you'd be able to read that if some retard didn't pull down my post for no reason
only genuine racism should be mutable, if you mute somebody for saying "my nigga" you're just an idiot
keller183 January 11, 2017 at 4:01 PM UTC
14 days mute :)
AtditC January 11, 2017 at 4:01 PM UTC
since when did they add mutes on this shit
Iron January 11, 2017 at 4:01 PM UTC
Well back when I was staff no one had a clue what racism was and it appears its still the same. I really dont see why saying "nigga" or "nigger" is bannable. Especially when doing so in isolation, the same goes for any racist words. If someone is genuinely being racist than you can go ahead and ban them. Otherwise, just tell them to stop. I really dont see how hard it is to gauge if someone is being racist.voidloop January 11, 2017 at 5:01 PM UTC
I did get banned once for saying "N**ga we made it by drake" in chat, but got unbanned shortly after because they understood. I think some staff members are more accepting about this than others, but I do agree 14 days is a bit excesive first try. And in the community we have its normal to do racist jokes, generally.Capenage January 16, 2017 at 8:01 AM UTC
same for suicide encouragement and that's what this thread is all about, the "punishments" for it
I understand, and sorry for going off topic!
hasl January 16, 2017 at 1:01 PM UTC
The current punishment:- Racism 14 Days » Permanent
Personally I would punish for it if it was either excessive or directed. A one off offence of saying just "n*gger" would be a verbal warn.
Rombeyy January 29, 2017 at 7:01 PM UTC
The current punishment:However there is no clarification of what 'racism' would be. So it's down to personal discretion of the mod.
- Racism 14 Days » Permanent
Personally I would punish for it if it was either excessive or directed. A one off offence of saying just "n*gger" would be a verbal warn.