The staff policy rule & Para's demotion
by
JDKL
January 11, 2016 at 5:01 PM UTC
Well, as I didn't have time to post in the 'open discussion', this post will raise some points about the staff policy and Para's demotion.
Staff Policy:
The new enforced rule which was that a Senior Moderator must come back as a Moderator is ridiculous. Any retired Senior Staff Member who'd like to come back should be able to ask to join the staff team again as a Senior Staff member. There isn't a reason to stop them from helping and joining back in the senior staff team unless they've retired twice.
Para's Demotion:
Para was a great Admin. He was a good leader and a role model to others. He worked hard and did a lot of new things. I'll admit that I've seen him sometimes do wrong things in the past and recently but many other people have, this includes Admins, Senior Moderators, Moderators. Some things that have been hidden too but they're still staff members. Some others have done even worse than Para did and they have either got promoted or demoted. I'm not going to hide this but Para said that everyone in the senior staff team apart from Funky or Newcleus were abusing in-game too. He also mentioned and admitted that he did make a castle and pulled pigs around it but the rest of the senior staff team except the ones I said abused as well. Some seniors apparently claimed that 'they use to do it all the time' according to him. I trust his word and I'm not going to stop believing it. This isn't to shame the Senior Staff team at all (I hope it doesn't at least), instead it is meant to explain why Para's demotion is invalid. If you believe that is valid, then the rest involved should also be demoted because they were part of it. Some points in the 'open discussion' are invalid (if you'd like me to explain them, let me know and I will edit this post and do so) and some of the players saying those points can't say much.
Para's Words:
I realise two wrongs don't make a right. I realise the problems that raised because of the abuse. However, I still never affected anyone by making a harmless TeamSpeak channel or playing around with a friend who was perfectly consented to it. In my eyes, it's not fair to demote an administrator when the same people (also some of which were a lower rank) continued to abuse far worse than I did, under some circumstances that occurred such as team spleefing players, TNTing, messing around on creative, whatever what was desired. It was my fault as an admin, sure, that I didn't deal with it, but when you get caught in the moment, it's something that's a struggle to understand the actual effect of what happened. If I am shot down like this, it's not quite fair to me. Out of a few staff who were harmless in abusing by making the spectator spawn a castle or spawning a few pigs, I don't really think that was the issue for in which case I did. The other thing I did do was coordinate a few licks of spam as seen in the match, but if I'm in guilt, the others should be in guilt too for far worse offenses. It's ridiculous. You don't turn right around and demote someone a week later for abuse. None of my abuse harmed anything.
Probably no going back considering the policy they added (feel like it's to keep me out, honestly, since I was the first ever impeached admin by such a substantially small group of people), but it's understandable, I suppose. I can still have my defence.
The fact that he said he wanted nothing to do with the senior staff team right after he got demoted shows that he doesn't handle these situations maturely. Also, the new policy was just made. If Para is allowed to return, it'd just be breaking the policy again.
Literally if he wants to come back, he should work his way back just like everyone else.
The fact that he said he wanted nothing to do with the senior staff team right after he got demoted shows that he doesn't handle these situations maturely. Also, the new policy was just made. If Para is allowed to return, it'd just be breaking the policy again.
Literally if he wants to come back, he should work his way back just like everyone else.
Literally if he wants to come back, he should work his way back just like everyone else. There is currently no "everyone else". Rinn, Michael, TheTNTPotato, Dylan, Jozzmcozz, Pelpelajax, AviGill, and many others prove against this. A lot of the junior trials that occurred were either that they wanted to, or we felt more comfortable with it. The system was, and still is, kind of broken.
The fact that he said he wanted nothing to do with the senior staff team right after he got demoted shows that he doesn't handle these situations maturely. Also, the new policy was just made. If Para is allowed to return, it'd just be breaking the policy again.
Literally if he wants to come back, he should work his way back just like everyone else.
"The fact that he said he wanted nothing to do with the senior staff team right after he got demoted shows that he doesn't handle these situations maturely". Why would he need to say anything about that? He doesn't need to say anything like that.
Before shit goes down let's try our best to avoid a flame war! ;)
I believe that the admins and senior staff are aware of the situation and have learned a lot from it! With the new policies in place the seniors should be able to reduce the amount of random demotions. Hopefully progress is being made :)
"The fact that he said he wanted nothing to do with the senior staff team right after he got demoted shows that he doesn't handle these situations maturely". Why would he need to say anything about that? He doesn't need to say anything like that.
I think my words got mixed... I said something along the lines of "I don't feel like serving under the senior staff team right now", which implied I wanted to be admin and not be under another belt.
I think my words got mixed... I said something along the lines of "I don't feel like serving under the senior staff team right now", which implied I wanted to be admin and not be under another belt.
Do you think they gave you a valid reason for you being demoted? I still don't understand if you disagree with their opinion on how you abused admin.
Ok this server is breaking because of people changing the policies for their convenience. If people are gonna keep changing it and say this is "effective immediately" then they need to stick to it. Vice was a great admin and the first one I met, but he said he didn't want to do anything with it and now he wants to return. If you guys are gonna stick to the policy, vice will have to work on it.
"Para said that everyone in the senior staff team apart from Funky or Newcleus". So your saying that the Owner himself is part of the senior staff team. gg ;]
"Para said that everyone in the senior staff team apart from Funky or Newcleus". So your saying that the Owner himself is part of the senior staff team. gg ;]
I think Admins are included in the Senior Staff Team.
"Para said that everyone in the senior staff team apart from Funky or Newcleus". So your saying that the Owner himself is part of the senior staff team. gg ;]
Literally if he wants to come back, he should work his way back just like everyone else. There is currently no "everyone else". Rinn, Michael, TheTNTPotato, Dylan, Jozzmcozz, Pelpelajax, AviGill, and many others prove against this. A lot of the junior trials that occurred were either that they wanted to, or we felt more comfortable with it. The system was, and still is, kind of broken.
I'm not talking about only people who were a senior staff member, this applies to all staff in general. If you were mod, sr mod, admin or whatever else, the policy should apply to everyone. No more exceptions.
I completely agree with what you said. We've revoked the demotion policy, as not everyone was involved in the decision, and the reasoning behind the policy was not clear whatsoever. As for Para's demotion, we're currently coming to a decision about his stance in the staff team, and most of us agree that he deserves to return. Although I do agree that some recent decisions haven't been thought through, the Senior Staff team has no intentions of creating things simply for our convenience. Furthermore, while I agree a definite rule should be placed about returning staff members (which we've recently worked on), I agree that staff members wishing to return to their previous posts should be able to if the Senior Staff believe it to be wise (with the exception of an Administrator returning to be an Administrator). This address comes from my opinions mostly, and does not entirely speak for the Senior Staff team as a whole. However, as part of both the Department of Relations and Department of Feedback and Staff Consistency, I can say that our main goal at the moment is to further develop relations between senior staff and community, staff and community, as well as senior staff and staff.
I think that everyone is blowing this way out of proportion. I mean, yes he abused the permissions allowed to him but from what I hear about the actions...
They're pretty mundane.
I witnessed FrozenSolstice get lava'd by Para but it was a joke among them both. She even confirmed herself that she played along and didn't care much.
So what if he set lava on some maps? Yes, it's altering the maps properties but at least it isn't compared to a lot of the things previous staff members have done. *Cough* *Cough* Racism *Cough* *Cough*
Also, not as a slight or anything but I find it questionable how a certain someone who was previously a troll and a racist as well as a TS bully somehow got promoted all the way to Sr.Mod. (Just using you as an example, not insulting you or etc.) I say that you guys need to ease off. Let he who is without sin throw the first stone. I'm not christian or anything but I believe that this quote is excellent. Y'know why? You all are petty hypocrites. You make a big deal out of a situation such as this yet you let a certain someone be Sr.Mod after all that they've done to people. Biased.
"I'm glad that new policies are taking place, however let's just hope and see that people will follow through with them to the letter instead of warping them for their own conveniences... This is a new year people, Let's Stop All This Horseshit."
I think my words got mixed... I said something along the lines of "I don't feel like serving under the senior staff team right now", which implied I wanted to be admin and not be under another belt.
In TeamSpeak, you said (don't ask me for proof, I wasn't conveniently recording, haha)
"I don't want anything to do with the senior staff team anymore"
Ethan and myself made this policy because every single time an older staff member came back and got Senior Moderator everyone would start giving the Senior Staff shit. They weren't happy that people could jump the queue. Even on the other thread that i locked the majority of people said they didn't want para coming back and jumping the queue.
Edit: By the way, this is the second time para has decided to retire.
I feel bad for all the parties involved in this whole "drama". Firstly, para was demoted for something he shouldn't have done. He abused his permissions - multiple times I have heard (+warned) - but continued. The structure at the moment is god damn unreliable - I personally can only trust a few of the seniors at the moment to make a solid call without being two faced. That is, they won't back down on their decision.
Nothing against para, he is a nice bloke, but stick to one decision. I know how para feels because I was once put in the same position as him (to an extent) but you all look hypocritical to me now :)
All I'm seeing on the forums at the moment is a bunch of admins/seniors making threads; then a day later revoking their decision. I mean, come on.
I feel bad for all the parties involved in this whole "drama". Firstly, para was demoted for something he shouldn't have done. He abused his permissions - multiple times I have heard (+warned) - but continued. The structure at the moment is god damn unreliable - I personally can only trust a few of the seniors at the moment to make a solid call without being two faced. That is, they won't back down on their decision.
Nothing against para, he is a nice bloke, but stick to one decision. I know how para feels because I was once put in the same position as him (to an extent) but you all look hypocritical to me now :)
All I'm seeing on the forums at the moment is a bunch of admins/seniors making threads; then a day later revoking their decision. I mean, come on.
I feel your pain of seeing a once beautiful staff team burn in the flames of bias and hypocrite.
I feel bad for all the parties involved in this whole "drama". Firstly, para was demoted for something he shouldn't have done. He abused his permissions - multiple times I have heard (+warned) - but continued. The structure at the moment is god damn unreliable - I personally can only trust a few of the seniors at the moment to make a solid call without being two faced. That is, they won't back down on their decision.
Nothing against para, he is a nice bloke, but stick to one decision. I know how para feels because I was once put in the same position as him (to an extent) but you all look hypocritical to me now :)
All I'm seeing on the forums at the moment is a bunch of admins/seniors making threads; then a day later revoking their decision. I mean, come on.
I think my words got mixed... I said something along the lines of "I don't feel like serving under the senior staff team right now", which implied I wanted to be admin and not be under another belt.
Para, your words didn't get mixed. Ironically, the words you just said are the ones that have been mixed.
I was in the Teamspeak chat with you and a few others right after you retired.
When someone asked you why you retired, you said the following. (keep in mind this is a direct quote, I have not altered this in any way)
"I don't want to be associated with the Senior Staff team"
Also when someone asked you why not just be a moderator you said,
"I don't want to be a mod"
These are direct quotes, word for word.
Just thought I'd post this here to avoid any further confusion.
You've got to start somewhere, and what Para said wasn't the full story. It's not an excuse for someone who abused their power to not get demoted just because someone under them was doing it...
Avicus is going to live! No signs of corruption anywhere, a great server which is obviously going to last for years to come, snowsx3 the time lord homself can confirm this too
Before shit goes down let's try our best to avoid a flame war! ;)
I believe that the admins and senior staff are aware of the situation and have learned a lot from it! With the new policies in place the seniors should be able to reduce the amount of random demotions. Hopefully progress is being made :)
Para, your words didn't get mixed. Ironically, the words you just said are the ones that have been mixed.
I was in the Teamspeak chat with you and a few others right after you retired.
When someone asked you why you retired, you said the following. (keep in mind this is a direct quote, I have not altered this in any way)
"I don't want to be associated with the Senior Staff team"
Also when someone asked you why not just be a moderator you said,
"I don't want to be a mod"
These are direct quotes, word for word.
Just thought I'd post this here to avoid any further confusion.
My bad, but what I said there isn't what I actually feel. I'd much prefer to return as administrator rather than be a moderator, however, which is my current preference. What I said on TeamSpeak wasn't conveyed as I intended it, and it probably was more harsh in the word than I meant.
I can only express what I feel in this post regarding that, and that is "I don't feel like serving under the senior staff team right now". Goes in hand with the other statement.
I feel bad for all the parties involved in this whole "drama". Firstly, para was demoted for something he shouldn't have done. He abused his permissions - multiple times I have heard (+warned) - but continued. The structure at the moment is god damn unreliable - I personally can only trust a few of the seniors at the moment to make a solid call without being two faced. That is, they won't back down on their decision.
Nothing against para, he is a nice bloke, but stick to one decision. I know how para feels because I was once put in the same position as him (to an extent) but you all look hypocritical to me now :)
All I'm seeing on the forums at the moment is a bunch of admins/seniors making threads; then a day later revoking their decision. I mean, come on.
I was never 'warned', and I still have the permissions even after my demotion from administrator -- I have not continued. Still waiting on someone to revoke the nodes from me, but I haven't abused "multiple times" in the way you think I have.
My bad, but what I said there isn't what I actually feel. I'd much prefer to return as administrator rather than be a moderator, however, which is my current preference. What I said on TeamSpeak wasn't conveyed as I intended it, and it probably was more harsh in the word than I meant.
I can only express what I feel in this post regarding that, and that is "I don't feel like serving under the senior staff team right now". Goes in hand with the other statement.
I understand your willingness to return to your previous Administrator position but because you got demoted you are no longer eligible for the administrator position.
It's like me asking to come back as Moderator. It won't happen because I got demoted, as did you.
Para didn't abuse his ts perms once, he has done this on a regular basis. Moving people randomly... not only that but he is disruptive and mic spams. Nothing against para but the truth is the truth. His demotion was justified.
I'm really not sure why this discussion still exists.....
People get demoted because for one reason or another, they aren't deemed fit to hold their position. I know people can change, but after being demoted less than a week ago, I don't see how Para can get his rank back.......
If the staff can't uphold their own rules and policies, I can see why ordinary players follow their example and get on the server and flyhack.
I'm really not sure why this discussion still exists.....
People get demoted because for one reason or another, they aren't deemed fit to hold their position. I know people can change, but after being demoted less than a week ago, I don't see how Para can get his rank back.......
If the staff can't uphold their own rules and policies, I can see why ordinary players follow their example and get on the server and flyhack.
"I'm not sure why this discussion still exists"
Probably the best post in this thread. I thought we had this solved in the last 3 threads.
I'm not if this is allowed but since the OP already had his answer answered can we just lock this topic since this was already talked about multiple times?
I will proceed to lock this thread, as this issue has been dealt with, and no discussion should be required any further.
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