Avicus Archive

DTM Monument Transitions - Important by Fouled December 30, 2016 at 8:12 PM UTC

Hello,

As you've probably already noticed, monuments now have transitions in DTM (Destroy the Monument). This meaning that after 25 minutes of gameplay, the monument will change from an obsidian block to a gold block. This change was made in order to reduce the stalemate that occurs on most maps. I will admit that this change was rather sudden and it shouldn't have been made this way and I apologize for it.

We want to have a vote with you guys on this change, whether it should be reverted, improved upon, introduce later on with more expansion upon the idea or to keep it.
Please vote here regarding this change. We want reasoning for the answers, not just a "remove" or "keep" so we're able to see what you guys actually think of the idea.

When voting, please be sure to address your opinions in a polite and constructive way or your vote may not be counted.

Regards,
The Map Development Team

AstroPizza December 30, 2016 at 8:12 PM UTC

neato

[Edit] I just wanted to be the first reply okay , i didn't read the post - please don't hurt me

Xuph December 30, 2016 at 8:12 PM UTC

This should not be implemented in DTM
Stalemate is a map issue, and cant be solved by this
Block transitions were developed for DTC and then should stay like this. It's in DTC to prevent not stalemate but simply being impossible to break the core after a defense is set up

dev_revs December 30, 2016 at 8:12 PM UTC

 not neato, the community hates it. but at least they are letting us vote, lets hope they listen

imryaan December 30, 2016 at 8:12 PM UTC

This should not be implemented in DTM
Stalemate is a map issue, and cant be solved by this
Block transitions were developed for DTC and then should stay like this. It's in DTC to prevent not stalemate but simply being impossible to break the core after a defense is set up

TheColdCrafter December 30, 2016 at 8:12 PM UTC

Shouldnt be a thing. It makes it far too easy even against a pro defense, they just need a good second on the monument, and its gone. I don't think this should be implemented.

profbananaslug December 30, 2016 at 8:12 PM UTC

This should not be implemented in DTM
Stalemate is a map issue, and cant be solved by this
Block transitions were developed for DTC and then should stay like this. It's in DTC to prevent not stalemate but simply being impossible to break the core after a defense is set up

Myv December 30, 2016 at 8:12 PM UTC

I don't mind it

flyofff December 30, 2016 at 8:12 PM UTC

LOL. You should have asked before changing it, not after changing it.

Crazy_ December 30, 2016 at 8:12 PM UTC

This should not be implemented in DTM
Stalemate is a map issue, and cant be solved by this
Block transitions were developed for DTC and then should stay like this. It's in DTC to prevent not stalemate but simply being impossible to break the core after a defense is set up
Eh, stalemate is not always cause by map issues. Defending can lead to a stalemate.

Xuph December 30, 2016 at 8:12 PM UTC

Eh, stalemate is not always cause by map issues. Defending can lead to a stalemate.
Defending should not lead to a GAMEBREAKING stalemate
Defending should obviously make it harder, but if a map defended properly is practically impossible then
For example spawn timer issues

Crazy_ December 30, 2016 at 8:12 PM UTC

Defending should not lead to a GAMEBREAKING stalemate
Defending should obviously make it harder, but if a map defended properly is practically impossible then
For example spawn timer issues
I'm having a hard time understanding what you're saying.

Defending shouldn't lead to a gamebreaking stalemate, but if a map is defended right it is practically impossible in terms of difficulty to win?

That's kinda contradicting the each point

Sevoo December 30, 2016 at 9:12 PM UTC

we only need this shit for dust devils

Xuph December 30, 2016 at 10:12 PM UTC

I'm having a hard time understanding what you're saying.

Defending shouldn't lead to a gamebreaking stalemate, but if a map is defended right it is practically impossible in terms of difficulty to win?

That's kinda contradicting the each point
I'm saying that maps that have issues and do get stalemated because of the issues its the map issue

My general point is
Maps that are stalemated are map/xml issue. its nothing to do with defending. defending should make the objective harder to get and it can stalemate a bit sometimes which is fine, but generally a map that is constantly or usually staltemated is a map issue.

Sem December 30, 2016 at 10:12 PM UTC

I'm saying that maps that have issues and do get stalemated because of the issues its the map issue

My general point is
Maps that are stalemated are map/xml issue. its nothing to do with defending. defending should make the objective harder to get and it can stalemate a bit sometimes which is fine, but generally a map that is constantly or usually staltemated is a map issue.
ISSUE

Xuph December 30, 2016 at 10:12 PM UTC

ISSUE
i

EDJM9 December 31, 2016 at 12:12 AM UTC

I feel that the mon should be changed into a beacon as this block takes a while to be broken, but it is a bit quicker

Posighdun December 31, 2016 at 3:12 AM UTC

This should not be implemented in DTM.

Spoookeh December 31, 2016 at 3:12 AM UTC

This should not be implemented in DTM
Stalemate is a map issue, and cant be solved by this
Block transitions were developed for DTC and then should stay like this. It's in DTC to prevent not stalemate but simply being impossible to break the core after a defense is set up

joelous December 31, 2016 at 4:12 AM UTC

It's a good implementation, people are not used to it yet. It's a strong solution to prevent stale, long and boring matches.

dev_revs December 31, 2016 at 4:12 AM UTC

It's a good implementation, people are not used to it yet. It's a strong solution to prevent stale, long and boring matches.
you're only saying that cause I heard it was your idea, they may be boring in your opinion, not most players.

joelous December 31, 2016 at 4:12 AM UTC

you're only saying that cause I heard it was your idea, they may be boring in your opinion, not most players.
Was not my idea. I was told to do it.

dev_revs December 31, 2016 at 4:12 AM UTC

Was not my idea. I was told to do it.
I recon you are active cause you're a mod, but looking at your kill feed you get like what a couple kills a day? How can you have such a strong opinion on something you don't seem to play very often? Players like myself who play destroy and the server in-game a lot, know what's good and what's not, which brings up the main reason people don't like this, it affects good ol gameplay.

SamuelJacob9 December 31, 2016 at 4:12 AM UTC

-1 Terrible idea, you guys stuffed up the server even more.

Sevoo December 31, 2016 at 4:12 AM UTC

Here's my suggestion. Why should we limit it to 1 block? After 20 minutes we get 8 gold blocks, at 40 we get 4, and at an hour we get one. Something along the lines of this I think would be better.

joelous December 31, 2016 at 4:12 AM UTC

I recon you are active cause you're a mod, but looking at your kill feed you get like what a couple kills a day? How can you have such a strong opinion on something you don't seem to play very often? Players like myself who play destroy and the server in-game a lot, know what's good and what's not, which brings up the main reason people don't like this, it affects good ol gameplay.
I just spectate now a days, but I've been here for years. I'm open to other thoughts though - but after all, this is just a thread to state opinions!

alexanderjoe December 31, 2016 at 4:12 AM UTC

I feel something more appropriate would be fore players to be able to vote if the core should be changed at the time or not.

Murphh December 31, 2016 at 5:12 AM UTC

Please vote to "remove" this change on DTM!

1) It's biased! Favors rushers and penalizes any defenders who care to defend. You are basically discouraging anyone from defending because after setting-up a solid defense, someone could win with one mine stroke depending on the map.  It's not a balanced rule.
2) Credits are unfair!  It gives the same credits for breaking a gold block as an obsidian block.  This will warp stats.  Again, it's not balanced.
3) It supports quick (non-team focused) games! Many players on avicus like long games where the defense can really spend time creating an awesome defense together as a team (ie. DustDevils).  Teamwork is key and makes avicus fun.
4) Short games keep players on the same server (mix or destroy)! Longer games should be encouraged because they help promote server diversity. Players who like a shorter game will start a new match on the other server mix, destroy, deathmatch, etc...
5) Change with no warning! Community input should have been considered before changes were implemented.

felipu_feliu December 31, 2016 at 5:12 AM UTC




Fouled we can talk later about this if you want

ProfessorUtonium December 31, 2016 at 5:12 AM UTC

I don't like it


DTM with monument changing is a terrible idea since it's just one block. Cores have multiple blocks so it's really fair for it and breaking a single block won't end the game unless the defenders are blind to patch up the core.


Some Additional Views:
The Monument Phases should NOT be forced upon a map. They should be the map makers choice. Maps like Clay Wars are SUITED for long matches where teams need to rally as a team and PUSH together against the opposing team's defense. If there are gold blocks, there are legit NO uses for that. If you have a diamond pickaxe, you'll break it so FAST that you don't need to cover yourself up. Like I've stated, not all maps should have phases. The Phases should be the map maker's choice depending on how they feel about their map.

It's a nice feature but it was terrible used and forced onto all the maps of DTM.

Sevoo December 31, 2016 at 5:12 AM UTC




Fouled we can talk later about this if you want
This would be a good idea but only if timers were really long, like 10 seconds. There's also the fact that lots of defenders just get full diamond and box defense so it's almost impossible to kill them.

PieZ December 31, 2016 at 5:12 AM UTC




Fouled we can talk later about this if you want
I...I might want to see this one day.

dev_revs December 31, 2016 at 5:12 AM UTC




Fouled we can talk later about this if you want
totally defeats the purpose of both teams defending. a match wont be stalemate if both teams don't defend, don't think this would ever work

DaFrozenBlaze December 31, 2016 at 5:12 AM UTC




Fouled we can talk later about this if you want
this sounds interesting lol

tomqss December 31, 2016 at 5:12 AM UTC

Please vote to "remove" this change on DTM!

1) It's biased! Favors rushers and penalizes any defenders who care to defend. You are basically discouraging anyone from defending because after setting-up a solid defense, someone could win with one mine stroke depending on the map.  It's not a balanced rule.
2) Credits are unfair!  It gives the same credits for breaking a gold block as an obsidian block.  This will warp stats.  Again, it's not balanced.
3) It supports quick (non-team focused) games! Many players on avicus like long games where the defense can really spend time creating an awesome defense together as a team (ie. DustDevils).  Teamwork is key and makes avicus fun.
4) Short games keep players on the same server (mix or destroy)! Longer games should be encouraged because they help promote server diversity. Players who like a shorter game will start a new match on the other server mix, destroy, deathmatch, etc...
5) Change with no warning! Community input should have been considered before changes were implemented.
Even though I agree with some of your points, like 5, I think that it's important for Avicus to make the game more entertaining. A playerbase of 50 or 75 can be happy with the game as it was, but what about all the other people that join the server and leave because of the stalematey and boring gameplay of DTM? 

While this playerbase should be kept happy, we shouldn't blindly satisfy it, but hear it and see what's good for the necessities of Avicus. 

For example in my case, I've come to a point in where i play once every two weeks maybe, and retired because I simply didn't want to join the server and play.

Posighdun December 31, 2016 at 6:12 AM UTC

After discussing it we've decided to revert phases and we'll keep it to DTC only.

ref December 31, 2016 at 6:12 AM UTC

i actually like stale avicus maps and if you want to change it to gold atleast put 3 or 4more blocks of gold since 1block of gold is easy to mine if you want to implement it to DTM

fazer153 December 31, 2016 at 10:12 AM UTC

Why not just add efficiency to the pickaxes over time and keep the monument an obsidian block throughout the game?

Diabolicx December 31, 2016 at 10:12 AM UTC

Well shit, half the dtm maps you guys have are messed up:

1. Some monuments are on islands 20 blocks away from the map
2. Some monuments require you to go through enemy spawn to destroy them...That's just wrong

So yeah I'm in favor of the gold mode

benaye December 31, 2016 at 11:12 AM UTC

Before I say this I know the problem has been fixed.

I'm against having obsidian > gold changes for the simple purpose as to why? So many games currently finish within the 5-10 minute mark and cycle to something completely different.

Some people come onto Avicus purely to defend and having gold block cycles really take away the fun of doing this. The occasional game of 30+ minutes can be really enjoyable for rushers and defenders of all sorts, seeing as trying new strategies is a popular idea in these games.

Most stalemate defences can be broken with a good team push on a skybridge, so why make it easier for attackers when to be perfectly honest we should be making it easier for defenders.

That's just my point.

2BJ December 31, 2016 at 11:12 AM UTC

Why not just add efficiency to the pickaxes over time and keep the monument an obsidian block throughout the game?
yes

ImRaging December 31, 2016 at 3:12 PM UTC

Gold is way too easy to break and the game usually ends straight after it turns to gold

i also think that this shouldnt happen at least in tournaments especially where the monument is only 1 block