Regarding Atlas
by
Posighdun
September 1, 2016 at 1:09 AM UTC
Ok so I think it's evident that Atlas, right now, isn't all sun shine and rainbows. I just wanted to talk about it all.
What's happening from here on in
So now that Atlas is released there is no turning back. We will just have to get rid of these bugs. It shouldn't take too long to make the plugin the same quality as Avicore or if not, better. For everyone that is complaining about Atlas, please, your complaining doesn't help or fix anything. This happens every update, it happened during the Omega update, everyone was annoyed stuff was removed and complained. Just give us a few days to fix it all up then come back. If you're so mad about it then take a break for a few days, go do some social stuff or school work, then come back.
The Lag
We are more than aware that currently some rotations undergo massive lag spikes. We are working on fixing it ASAP. Keenan already reduced a bit of the lag already and we are currently trying to locate the main source of the lag. It will be fixed very soon, and not Atlas soon, *VERY* soon. As soon as we can locate what is causing it, it will be eradicated.
Other bugs
We are more than aware of other bugs. Right now the most important bugs to squash are bugs ingame, so our devs have been working to try and limit the impact they have on the game and essentially fix them.
What can you do to help?
Help us squash these bugs. Report them to the issue tracker, don't complain about them ingame, because the developers might not even be aware that some bugs exist and they might be so easy to squash. If some of you have some spare time, go on a server and try to see what causes the lag, or go around hunting for glitches and bugs.
I see where you are coming from Posighdun. But I think that rather than people complaining in-game or in forums, they should give their feedback, and opinions or ways to improve somethings. Because this is like an effective way to improve the update. By listening to the people (players in this case), is probably the only way to upgrade the server, and fill what they need and want (of course there are other ways ;) ) But overall, I really agree that complaining is NOT a way to help Avicus. Thanks for mentioning this. :D
i was having a lovely chat with myworld and then pusiydon rudely interrupted. i simply said hush pusiydon and i got worned. i believe this admin is salty simply because i am cooler than him. if this appeal wont be considered ill take further action and kill myself bye
In my opinion, this is going to be a not-quite-so severe version of Omega.
You all saw what happened with the Omega update. People left, hundreds perhaps. Yes, I admit, and this is positive, many people have come towards us now that Overcast is shutting down, and that can only get better after they shutdown for our player count.
However, the Atlas update has already caused people to leave - it's been out like 48 hours!? And also, didn't many leave when McZone became Avicus anyway?
I understand bug fixes, and refineries, as they help the server, but a complete revamp every year or so is, in my opinion, pointless. I ended up actually really liking the way the Omega update ran, with scrims and that. But now you remove gamemodes, create new ones and release an unfinished product.
The majority here don't like change, me being one of them. So if you really think an update is important (which in my eyes, it isn't), make it complete and refined? Because something is clearly wrong, otherwise people wouldn't leave.
Sorry for the rant, just wanted to get my point across.
In my opinion, this is going to be a not-quite-so severe version of Omega.
You all saw what happened with the Omega update. People left, hundreds perhaps. Yes, I admit, and this is positive, many people have come towards us now that Overcast is shutting down, and that can only get better after they shutdown for our player count.
However, the Atlas update has already caused people to leave - it's been out like 48 hours!? And also, didn't many leave when McZone became Avicus anyway?
I understand bug fixes, and refineries, as they help the server, but a complete revamp every year or so is, in my opinion, pointless. I ended up actually really liking the way the Omega update ran, with scrims and that. But now you remove gamemodes, create new ones and release an unfinished product.
The majority here don't like change, me being one of them. So if you really think an update is important (which in my eyes, it isn't), make it complete and refined? Because something is clearly wrong, otherwise people wouldn't leave.
Sorry for the rant, just wanted to get my point across.
I will just point out that the people leaving are being super inpatient, but yeah, I agree. Maybe the update should have had more glitches fixed before it was released. I think the update was needed, the knockback on Avicus before Atlas was so messed up that if I played on Avicus then went to another server I could barely pvp. It was to the point where you would get good at Aviucs pvp but on any other server you would suck. Now, some things didn't need to be updated, but because Atlas completely re-did the coding of Avicus something just couldn't stay, or wouldn't fit well with the new version of Avicus.
was any testing done at all? There wouldn't be this many bugs if proper testing was actually done...
There was, and if the tests were done a different server host or something like that, then some of them may not have been noticeable. As well as sometimes when you fix bugs others pop up. So you can think you've fixed all the bugs you've found, and maybe you have, but other may pop up that you either didn't think to test or did notice when you tested Atlas.
was any testing done at all? There wouldn't be this many bugs if proper testing was actually done...
beta.avic.us played really well, but remember that was only one rotation, not an entire network. Let alone an entire network that had it's code completely redone.
Pretty sure the lag is fixed. I went around asking a whole bunch of people and they all said that either it was minimal or non existent so thanks developers <3
There has been reports of some client lag though, but there is next to nothing we can do about that.
was any testing done at all? There wouldn't be this many bugs if proper testing was actually done...
There were tests but literally only 2 tests were done and with maps that didn't really utilize Atlas's newer features.
The last tests done were 2 months ago. I mainly blame the mapdevs for this - specifically the map testing ones and the head mapdevs for failing to make sure that the map testers did their jobs, doing frequent public and private tests and experiments for unseen bugs, proper usage and intuitive features.
i was having a lovely chat with myworld and then pusiydon rudely interrupted. i simply said hush pusiydon and i got worned. i believe this admin is salty simply because i am cooler than him. if this appeal wont be considered ill take further action and kill myself bye
There were tests but literally only 2 tests were done and with maps that didn't really utilize Atlas's newer features.
The last tests done were 2 months ago. I mainly blame the mapdevs for this - specifically the map testing ones and the head mapdevs for failing to make sure that the map testers did their jobs, doing frequent public and private tests and experiments for unseen bugs, proper usage and intuitive features.
You can't blame map devs, we don't control when testing was done lol.
You can't blame map devs, we don't control when testing was done lol.
You guys had beta.avicus.net to use to test out maps.
You guys also had separate departments for some reason, map testing was one of them.
It was a public forum post - everyone knows about this :T
It should've been utilized more and maps should've been tested more. If they were then most of these maps would've been alright. As it is, players can break their own monuments - region selected ones that is.
This was a problem that I noticed when one of you tested out Cheaghalov Station and Hargrove. If you tested maps more frequently and tested maps that used Atlas's more advanced features... We wouldn't have this problem noticed just now. Also, your statement is worrying... Of course you guys manage when testing maps are done... You're MapDevs!
can the devs make a list of what they are going to fix so i dont have to complain because right now it is really bad also lag isnt gone on destroy 1 everyone was freezing
It's the default hit detection built into Minecraft, not sure what to tell you :P
We have nothing to fix since we haven't touched it. Anyways, many people claim it's better? That's cool too!
Then the default hit detection sucks.
Either that or the fact that I'm getting weird fps spikes that go below my monitor's refresh rate make my aim bad but after seeing a recording it's definitely the bad hit detection.
Look, I'm not trying to be mean or anything but you guys are seriously saying that this is good hit detection?
Either that or the fact that I'm getting weird fps spikes that go below my monitor's refresh rate make my aim bad but after seeing a recording it's definitely the bad hit detection.
Look, I'm not trying to be mean or anything but you guys are seriously saying that this is good hit detection?
It would help if you recorded it. Usually hit detection is caused because of lag lol
That makes more sense. Although some people were getting better hit detection than me? I recall several moments where I should have at least traded hits with someone, but they hit me more.
That makes more sense. Although some people were getting better hit detection than me? I recall several moments where I should have at least traded hits with someone, but they hit me more.
Then doesn't that prove that hit detection isn't as bad as it appears it to be? :P I don't think you're wrong or right about the hit detection, but maybe we should wait until most of the major bugs have been ironed out before making judgments! =)
Then doesn't that prove that hit detection isn't as bad as it appears it to be? :P I don't think you're wrong or right about the hit detection, but maybe we should wait until most of the major bugs have been ironed out before making judgments! =)
Trust me, I'm as patient as the next person when it comes to updates and stuff. I'm just surprised I didn't get a 100% clear answer as to why the hit detection wasn't going to be edited when I received a reply on my Github report.
Basically they said they have "mixed opinions" on hit detection and that they won't edit it which pissed me off because it basically felt like I was getting 300 ms while I was getting 30. Kind of weird ;l.
Hit detection is fucked up completely. I recently got 30ms ping and for 2 days i was really good, and now with this fucking update i cant even knock any one of a bridge let alone 1v1 them head on.
Hit detection is fucked up completely. I recently got 30ms ping and for 2 days i was really good, and now with this fucking update i cant even knock any one of a bridge let alone 1v1 them head on.
Yes, we're currently looking into hit detection. My own personal opinion is that the anticheat is stuffing around with the hit detection and knockback but we're looking into it. Can't promise we will 100% fix it or anything like that but i'm sure if there is a way to try and make it better we'll try it.
Yes, we're currently looking into hit detection. My own personal opinion is that the anticheat is stuffing around with the hit detection and knockback but we're looking into it. Can't promise we will 100% fix it or anything like that but i'm sure if there is a way to try and make it better we'll try it.
Alright thanks. It didn't come to me as a surprise that hit detection was screwed up, but it did when Keenan replied saying they won't tinker with it.
Anyways, good luck.
A couple of things that are annoying me:
No random useful commands (/tracker, nh, etc).
Kb is a little fucked (IMO better than before though, but still weird)
Hit detection
Random lag (happens sometimes but is.no where near as worse as the first 48 hours
Fps lag. I also reported this on Github and was told it was probably me. But, after a little testing I concluded its only on Avicus where my FPS drops below 150 (this is a problem for me as I have a 144hz monitor). I've been getting 200+ FPS on Hypixel, a single player world, and some faction servers. Fairly sure it has to do something with the server.
Alright thanks. It didn't come to me as a surprise that hit detection was screwed up, but it did when Keenan replied saying they won't tinker with it.
Anyways, good luck.
A couple of things that are annoying me:
No random useful commands (/tracker, nh, etc).
Kb is a little fucked (IMO better than before though, but still weird)
Hit detection
Random lag (happens sometimes but is.no where near as worse as the first 48 hours
Fps lag. I also reported this on Github and was told it was probably me. But, after a little testing I concluded its only on Avicus where my FPS drops below 150 (this is a problem for me as I have a 144hz monitor). I've been getting 200+ FPS on Hypixel, a single player world, and some faction servers. Fairly sure it has to do something with the server.
/nh is back, knockback is still a bit weird but better, hit detection definitely has something wrong with it, but I have noticed a boost in my FPS, in fact Avicus is one of the servers with the highest FPS for me.
/nh is back, knockback is still a bit weird but better, hit detection definitely has something wrong with it, but I have noticed a boost in my FPS, in fact Avicus is one of the servers with the highest FPS for me.
/nh is back, knockback is still a bit weird but better, hit detection definitely has something wrong with it, but I have noticed a boost in my FPS, in fact Avicus is one of the servers with the highest FPS for me.
Yeah I think it's just a couple of maps that make me lag ;l.
Why does PvP feel different in S13, and what is going to be done to fix it? Ok, before we even start this topic of networking and minecraft problems, we are going to go over some ground rules and definitions.
Delayed KB - When the server delays issuing KB to players for whatever reason. Delayed hits - When the server delays issuing "hits" to a player entity. Hit detection - Term people use to describe combat issues when they really don't know anything about minecraft mechanics and want to appear smart.
Ok, so now that we have that out of our way, let's get right into basic minecraft/networking. Firstly, when a client says "I attacked a player" it sends an attack packet with the ID of the entity it attacked (say I attacked MasterGberry and his entity ID was 1304, I would literally send in networking language "I attacked 1304"). The server gets that packet and processes it on the next available tick (20 ticks per second, or TPS, when the server is doing well). When the server executes that attack, it literally makes sure I am within range of MasterGberry - if I am it validates the attack, if I'm not it doesn't. It does not check direction, it does not check if I was aiming, it does nothing other then check range. When you say hit detection, I say you're an idiot who doesn't know what you're talking about, because literal hit detection is "Am I within range."
Now, so why does PvP feel so damn different on S13. Simple, because you know how when you send a packet to the server, so is every other player, sometimes sending 5-10 a second depending on what they are doing. The server has to execute every packet it has received on the next tick, IN ORDER OF RECEIVED. So when a server has 1k players on, it can have easily 3-4k packets per tick to execute. These take some time, and cause what Badlion Arena actually have - Delayed KB and hits. The reason is because the hits feel delayed because they can sometimes take up to an additional 50ms to execute because of all the packets the server has to process, which makes "hit detection" feel worse. This can make hits feel delayed and sometimes even get canceled, and also makes KB feel delayed because it gets applied later, and because of that the player who was hit has moved forward some which negates some of the KB making it look like he received less KB.
Why does PvP feel different in S13, and what is going to be done to fix it? Ok, before we even start this topic of networking and minecraft problems, we are going to go over some ground rules and definitions.
Delayed KB - When the server delays issuing KB to players for whatever reason. Delayed hits - When the server delays issuing "hits" to a player entity. Hit detection - Term people use to describe combat issues when they really don't know anything about minecraft mechanics and want to appear smart.
Ok, so now that we have that out of our way, let's get right into basic minecraft/networking. Firstly, when a client says "I attacked a player" it sends an attack packet with the ID of the entity it attacked (say I attacked MasterGberry and his entity ID was 1304, I would literally send in networking language "I attacked 1304"). The server gets that packet and processes it on the next available tick (20 ticks per second, or TPS, when the server is doing well). When the server executes that attack, it literally makes sure I am within range of MasterGberry - if I am it validates the attack, if I'm not it doesn't. It does not check direction, it does not check if I was aiming, it does nothing other then check range. When you say hit detection, I say you're an idiot who doesn't know what you're talking about, because literal hit detection is "Am I within range."
Now, so why does PvP feel so damn different on S13. Simple, because you know how when you send a packet to the server, so is every other player, sometimes sending 5-10 a second depending on what they are doing. The server has to execute every packet it has received on the next tick, IN ORDER OF RECEIVED. So when a server has 1k players on, it can have easily 3-4k packets per tick to execute. These take some time, and cause what Badlion Arena actually have - Delayed KB and hits. The reason is because the hits feel delayed because they can sometimes take up to an additional 50ms to execute because of all the packets the server has to process, which makes "hit detection" feel worse. This can make hits feel delayed and sometimes even get canceled, and also makes KB feel delayed because it gets applied later, and because of that the player who was hit has moved forward some which negates some of the KB making it look like he received less KB.
So if hit detection is real, what should I say to refer to it?
Don't know much about this but shouldn't the server be executing less packets and therefore providing a wider range of hits validated due to the sudden loss of players? Cause that ain't happening.
Don't know much about this but shouldn't the server be executing less packets and therefore providing a wider range of hits validated due to the sudden loss of players? Cause that ain't happening.
Sudden loss of players is different though. As we're talking about 1 server here, there is always 1 server going on, and that server is still executing the packets of 40-50 people. So it looks like there's a loss of players as there's less players on the network, but that's different to one server.
Why does PvP feel different in S13, and what is going to be done to fix it? Ok, before we even start this topic of networking and minecraft problems, we are going to go over some ground rules and definitions.
Delayed KB - When the server delays issuing KB to players for whatever reason. Delayed hits - When the server delays issuing "hits" to a player entity. Hit detection - Term people use to describe combat issues when they really don't know anything about minecraft mechanics and want to appear smart.
Ok, so now that we have that out of our way, let's get right into basic minecraft/networking. Firstly, when a client says "I attacked a player" it sends an attack packet with the ID of the entity it attacked (say I attacked MasterGberry and his entity ID was 1304, I would literally send in networking language "I attacked 1304"). The server gets that packet and processes it on the next available tick (20 ticks per second, or TPS, when the server is doing well). When the server executes that attack, it literally makes sure I am within range of MasterGberry - if I am it validates the attack, if I'm not it doesn't. It does not check direction, it does not check if I was aiming, it does nothing other then check range. When you say hit detection, I say you're an idiot who doesn't know what you're talking about, because literal hit detection is "Am I within range."
Now, so why does PvP feel so damn different on S13. Simple, because you know how when you send a packet to the server, so is every other player, sometimes sending 5-10 a second depending on what they are doing. The server has to execute every packet it has received on the next tick, IN ORDER OF RECEIVED. So when a server has 1k players on, it can have easily 3-4k packets per tick to execute. These take some time, and cause what Badlion Arena actually have - Delayed KB and hits. The reason is because the hits feel delayed because they can sometimes take up to an additional 50ms to execute because of all the packets the server has to process, which makes "hit detection" feel worse. This can make hits feel delayed and sometimes even get canceled, and also makes KB feel delayed because it gets applied later, and because of that the player who was hit has moved forward some which negates some of the KB making it look like he received less KB.
Yes, we're currently looking into hit detection. My own personal opinion is that the anticheat is stuffing around with the hit detection and knockback but we're looking into it. Can't promise we will 100% fix it or anything like that but i'm sure if there is a way to try and make it better we'll try it.
Hmm ok. On a side note, why do we even use anti cheat if it does not seem to be effective? (Fly Hackers aren't auto banned, aimbotters can still aimbot etc...
We made some small changes yesterday. Hopefully the majority of you can see the changes in the hit detection, I know I can and I asked a lot of people and most of them said the hit detection had improved yesterday.
Hmm ok. On a side note, why do we even use anti cheat if it does not seem to be effective? (Fly Hackers aren't auto banned, aimbotters can still aimbot etc...
Anti cheats aren't just used for determining and banning hackers. They are used for many other things and it does make a small difference.
We made some small changes yesterday. Hopefully the majority of you can see the changes in the hit detection, I know I can and I asked a lot of people and most of them said the hit detection had improved yesterday.
It has, thanks.
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