Changes in Staff Demotions by MidnightBeats January 9, 2016 at 11:01 PM UTC
Effective immediately, moderators will no longer be allowed to request evidence for their demotions. Keep in mind that this does not mean that we will demote moderators without reason. Recently, demoted junior moderators have been doing this, and many of them have simply denied the legitimacy of the presented evidence. This should not be happening, and we will no longer be tolerating this. However, we will still collect evidence for our records. This will also improve efficiency during staff applications.-The Senior Staff Team
NovaLikesPvP January 9, 2016 at 11:01 PM UTC
First comment gf ladszero9178 January 9, 2016 at 11:01 PM UTC
uhm.... why ?Tazz January 9, 2016 at 11:01 PM UTC
uhm.... why ?
Bloodoh January 9, 2016 at 11:01 PM UTC
https://gyazo.com/4b4bd48d7ea455cb51a5d5f2ddab44f6 ILLUMINATI CONFIRMEDzero9178 January 9, 2016 at 11:01 PM UTC
I'm pretty sure because evidence isn't needed. Like, people were asking for evidence of them 'not being active enough', which is pathetic.
AtditC January 10, 2016 at 12:01 AM UTC
okay.SnowSX3 January 10, 2016 at 12:01 AM UTC
Um what?If someone gets demoted they deserve to know why they got demoted and what they did wrong and presenting evidence is a part of that.
With regards to the juniors, who are they to deny their evidence if it's concrete?
If you have legitimate evidence you shouldn't be having any problems.
IndigoHawkins January 10, 2016 at 12:01 AM UTC
Cool server you're running here.vladthegreat100 January 10, 2016 at 12:01 AM UTC
"Recently, demoted junior moderators have been doing this, and many of them have simply denied the legitimacy of the presented evidence"If so why not deny giving evidence to Junior Mods only and allow Moderators?
From the looks of this post the rule has changed due to the Jr Mods not believing the legitimacy of the evidence.
Even if the mod may be getting demoted he did help and did well as Junior Mod and may have helped in the past with moderating before things went downhill. If the reason is because "he is getting demoted" why not deny giving demoted Sr Staff their evidence as well?
This is just a question and not a way of ranting. I want to see why your blamed it on the Junior Mods and are enforcing the rules for Mods as well.
gobernment January 10, 2016 at 12:01 AM UTC
What the fuck?How does this solve anything? This is a cheap way of solving something that sounds more like a personal problem. This doesn't solve staff quality, nor fit any priorities. You're doing this for your own benefit to throw out some other moderators.
If you're that desperate, then time will take its course if they need to be demoted. You should also alert the community beforehand before such a big change, because I doubt many would consent to this. It's like passing a bill for a country, asking what's in it/why, and you say "You'll find out when it's passed".
Come in, it isn't logical and you know it. Please revert this, it makes it open to more bias. The community doesn't want this.
SnowSX3 January 10, 2016 at 12:01 AM UTC
Was this discussed in the staff meeting?I find it hard to believe that the majority of the staff team was ok with this.
gobernment January 10, 2016 at 12:01 AM UTC
Was this discussed in the staff meeting?
I find it hard to believe that the majority of the staff team was ok with this.
:(
Glitchaye January 10, 2016 at 12:01 AM UTC
oh boy it gets better dailySnowSX3 January 10, 2016 at 12:01 AM UTC
The "senior staff team making all the decisions" thing isn't working out. I'm in slack and even still in 2 mod channels and talked to others, this is the first I've heard of it.
:(
gobernment January 10, 2016 at 12:01 AM UTC
Oh, so the majority of the staff team didn't even know? How comforting.
pope_panda January 10, 2016 at 12:01 AM UTC
jee wizzBoldAndBrash January 10, 2016 at 12:01 AM UTC
I don't even need to explain my reasoning, just read above. I don't like this.JJTheGuy January 10, 2016 at 12:01 AM UTC
I just wanna hear the logic behind thing... Can someone explain?Edit: Nvm, I see. Reasons will still be given.
Cyclops January 10, 2016 at 12:01 AM UTC
oh boy it gets better daily
gobernment January 10, 2016 at 12:01 AM UTC
I just wanna hear the logic behind thing... Can someone explain?
Edit: Nvm, I see. Reasons will still be given.
_Jupiter January 10, 2016 at 12:01 AM UTC
oh dearthis is not a good idea
Administrafer January 10, 2016 at 1:01 AM UTC
This is good gossip. I will keep it short since I could go on for hours...What you just did, makes it more obvious that you are running away from everything. How can demoted staff feel like they have been treated fairly? How do they know if evidence IS present during senior discussions? Seriously, this is making me cringe. Just because juniors are disliking decisions, they have every right to; because if you were demoted - obviously you would want to question it... Right? Why affect mod ranks too?
Actually, was this discussed with the general staff body? I assure you the majority of mods dislike this change.
"Improved efficiency of staff apps"
LOL? How? Staff apps have nothing to do with this change; and lord help us if you reply with "so we can focus on apps"..
JUBBINATOR January 10, 2016 at 1:01 AM UTC
"Effective immediately, moderators will no longer be allowed to request evidence for their demotions. Keep in mind that this does not mean that we will demote moderators without reason."Ya go ahead and find a BS reason for demotion. They ain't gonna see it for the BS that it is, the demoted moderator, so you can do whatever you want. You're an admin after all, what do I know? You only have this server's best interests at heart, and if you think this is needed go on then.
Recently, demoted junior moderators have been doing this, and many of them have simply denied the legitimacy of the presented evidence. This should not be happening
Ya, that makes sense. People totally don't get upset they're demoted and try to fight it or find a reason that they're wrong. Like it's totally not human nature to oppose something you don't think is fair or right. This really should not be happening! I totally understand where you're coming from, what a competent decision.
"and we will no longer be tolerating this."
Ya go on mate! Do what you want then! You're senior staff, you run this server! If people protesting demotions annoy you, go ahead and ban showing evidence at all! Such foresight from a gifted admin.
"This will also improve efficiency during staff applications."
Ya man! When you make a decision and people cant appeal it, that cuts out so much time from the whole process! Good on you for optimising the process man, I don't understand why nobody's done it before! You're a bloody genius!
Overall, you've made a great decision mate. I approve it 10/10.
Besides, if that's how you wanna control your staff team, that's fine! You're an admin, you make the final call. I'm just a player, so I have no idea your reasoning behind this, but I completely stand with it!
c:
gobernment January 10, 2016 at 1:01 AM UTC
This rule is in place because we are sick and tired of moderators who do absolutely nothing and get demoted who then come back and ask for evidence and then they get a reassessment.- senior mod
Looks like OP may be false.
Coco_stag January 10, 2016 at 1:01 AM UTC
HAHA LOL! People get demoted, and aren't allowed the evidence. This server just gets better and better.Administrafer January 10, 2016 at 1:01 AM UTC
This rule is in place because we are sick and tired of moderators who do absolutely nothing and get demoted who then come back and ask for evidence and then they get a reassessment.
- senior mod
Looks like OP may be false.
Adding on, this was EXACTLY why I wanted to abolish staff reassessments (not regarding OP but the quote from sr mod)
Sevoo January 10, 2016 at 1:01 AM UTC
Just when I thought I were going in the right direction. I literally cannot understand why they cannot get their evidence. If they ask for it, it's their right to have it. If they deny it, then so be it. And 2 Admins decided this alone? It's just funny at this point. I feel so bad for you Avicus. You deserve better.IviFetita January 10, 2016 at 1:01 AM UTC
Avicus, a server that makes you appreciate the actual level of freedom and democracy in your country...BoldAndBrash January 10, 2016 at 1:01 AM UTC
Surely if the evidence is already there, it can't be too hard to just copy a small paragraph and paste it? And if they want to argue/discuss, that shouldn't be a burden. You're seniors/admins, you're job is to make sure the community is running right and that everyone is treated equally and respectfully.NovaLikesPvP January 10, 2016 at 1:01 AM UTC
I think Zegita & Midnight confused Titles, this should be called * SO FUNNY PLEASE SEE LMAO *£^
MLGtino January 10, 2016 at 1:01 AM UTC
BIG MISTAKE. BIG BIG MISTAKE.Administrafer January 10, 2016 at 1:01 AM UTC
Surely if the evidence is already there, it can't be too hard to just copy a small paragraph and paste it? And if they want to argue/discuss, that shouldn't be a burden. You're seniors/admins, you're job is to make sure the community is running right and that everyone is treated equally and respectfully.
IndigoHawkins January 10, 2016 at 1:01 AM UTC
Avicus, a server that makes you appreciate the actual level of freedom and democracy in your country...
#Keemstar
@DramaAlert
@Keemstar
Goodnighht January 10, 2016 at 1:01 AM UTC
" Recently, demoted junior moderators have been doing this, and many of them have simply denied the legitimacy of the presented evidence. This should not be happening, and we will no longer be tolerating this."-So, you're tired of people complaining about their demotions, and saying that they are unfair/bias. So to fix this, you tell them they can't see evidence, and claim that you are still taking evidence of these things??????? If someone wants to know why they were demoted, and want to see evidence, wouldn't that make the bickering, and commotion less? If you removed their ability to see evidence then 99% of demotions-right or not- will be looked at as bias and stupid... I understand that you have reasons for demoting people, but not letting them see the evidence for being demoted is stupid, and is going to cause more trouble then adding this rule will get rid of. This new rule is not right, people should have the right to see why they were demoted and get proof of it.
Sevoo January 10, 2016 at 1:01 AM UTC
This is why I admire you, one of the few staff members who are opinionatrd and are not scared to publicly post their opinion... Like what you said to me when I was repromoted to admin; and even now. Complete legend! Keep it up!
JJTheGuy January 10, 2016 at 1:01 AM UTC
#DramaAlert
#Keemstar
@DramaAlert
@Keemstar
I'm going to try and get the admins to come on and talk to me about what was going through their head as they made this decision.
Petlas January 10, 2016 at 1:01 AM UTC
"Recently, demoted junior moderators have been doing this, and many of them have simply denied the legitimacy of the presented evidence. This should not be happening, and we will no longer be tolerating this."And a staff member has never countered demotion evidence up until now, hm? Alrighty then.
Basically you feel like this change is going to eliminate the arguing against evidence presented for a demotion, and sure, it will. But the only thing this is going to result in is far more arguing for multiple reasons.
There'll be arguments over this change in general, claims of bias, actual bias (trust me, it'll happen), and of course, a desire for reasoning behind demotions. I really - And I mean really - Don't think this is going to resolve anything. You're pretty much asking for disapproval.
Sevoo January 10, 2016 at 1:01 AM UTC
He-llooooo Drama Aleet nation, I'm your host, the Rap God. Today on Drama Alert, we'll take a look at the huge mistake the admin team has made by not allowing evidence to be seen by the demoted party.
I'm going to try and get the admins to come on and talk to me about what was going through their head as they made this decision.
steven5703 January 10, 2016 at 1:01 AM UTC
Nice memegobernment January 10, 2016 at 1:01 AM UTC
If we petition and formulate strong arguments, the admins should listen. I do not believe they're that close minded: I know both dawning and midnight, they'll learn from this mistake. They know who the server is for.Sevoo January 10, 2016 at 1:01 AM UTC
If we petition and formulate strong arguments, the admins should listen. I do not believe they're that close minded: I know both dawning and midnight, they'll learn from this mistake. They know who the server is for.
xNemoII January 10, 2016 at 2:01 AM UTC
Lmao I'll get the pyrosDaFrozenBlaze January 10, 2016 at 2:01 AM UTC
Yaygobernment January 10, 2016 at 2:01 AM UTC
Yay
Nay.
Newcleus January 10, 2016 at 2:01 AM UTC
I'm more than willing to talk on TeamSpeak to anyone wanting to discuss this whole situation.I'm not going to write a post to prevent people bending my words.
Administrafer January 10, 2016 at 2:01 AM UTC
I'm more than willing to talk on TeamSpeak to anyone wanting to discuss this whole situation.
I'm not going to write a post to prevent people bending my words.
vladthegreat100 January 10, 2016 at 2:01 AM UTC
I'm more than willing to talk on TeamSpeak to anyone wanting to discuss this whole situation.
I'm not going to write a post to prevent people bending my words.
Best to write it here where everyone can see it as well so you don't get asked 100 million bajillion times ;]
Newcleus January 10, 2016 at 2:01 AM UTC
You can probably bend words even more off teamspeak tbh. In word you can clearly state what needs to be stated and if someone tries bending the words because you wrote it incorrectly but its obvious what you want to say. On teamspeak if someone doesn't understand fully & don't fight after can bend the words and have no clear cut evidence of what you said.
Best to write it here where everyone can see it as well so you don't get asked 100 million bajillion times ;]
GuyNamedRiley January 10, 2016 at 2:01 AM UTC
This is good gossip. I will keep it short since I could go on for hours...
What you just did, makes it more obvious that you are running away from everything. How can demoted staff feel like they have been treated fairly? How do they know if evidence IS present during senior discussions? Seriously, this is making me cringe. Just because juniors are disliking decisions, they have every right to; because if you were demoted - obviously you would want to question it... Right? Why affect mod ranks too?
Actually, was this discussed with the general staff body? I assure you the majority of mods dislike this change.
"Improved efficiency of staff apps"
LOL? How? Staff apps have nothing to do with this change; and lord help us if you reply with "so we can focus on apps"..
Colecrc January 10, 2016 at 2:01 AM UTC
I agree and disagree with this change since SR staff shouldn't have to chase you done just to get evidence, though not being allowed to ask for evidence is just a terrible idea and the fact people in the community or fellow staff don't know what happened which can create some flame within the staff team and the community.Thomas_Shoes January 10, 2016 at 2:01 AM UTC
lolCapenage January 10, 2016 at 3:01 AM UTC
Okey? LOLVobaseball12 January 10, 2016 at 3:01 AM UTC
"Hi, you're demoted!""Why?"
"We aren't going to tell you because of this policy, but we have it on record!"
-_-
vladthegreat100 January 10, 2016 at 3:01 AM UTC
"Hi, you're demoted!"
"Why?"
"We aren't going to tell you because of this policy, but we have it on record!"
-_-
DaFrozenBlaze January 10, 2016 at 3:01 AM UTC
"Hi, you're demoted!"
"Why?"
"We aren't going to tell you because of this policy, but we have it on record!"
-_-
SnowSX3 January 10, 2016 at 3:01 AM UTC
They tell you. You just aren't allowed to request for evidence but you will probably get it <- Clarification from Michael
Now, let's read that sentence again.
They will tell you, you just can't ask for it but you might get it, probably.
Oh come on, the Senior Staff doesn't even understand this themselves.
SnowSX3 January 10, 2016 at 3:01 AM UTC
I'm more than willing to talk on TeamSpeak to anyone wanting to discuss this whole situation.
I'm not going to write a post to prevent people bending my words.
At least on the forums you won't have to repeat yourself.
Also, why do you not want people to bend your words?
If people are confused then helping them understand will benefit everyone.
Posighdun January 10, 2016 at 3:01 AM UTC
"They tell you, you just can't requested for it but you will probably get it"
Now, let's read that sentence again.
They will tell you, you just can't ask for it but you might get it, probably.
Oh come on, the Senior Staff doesn't even understand this themselves.
You cannot request evidence for your demotion but in most situations we will give it you. It really depends on the situation of the moderator who has been demoted.
vladthegreat100 January 10, 2016 at 3:01 AM UTC
"They tell you, you just can't requested for it but you will probably get it"
Now, let's read that sentence again.
They will tell you, you just can't ask for it but you might get it, probably.
Oh come on, the Senior Staff doesn't even understand this themselves.
You have a big chance to get your evidence but not 100% chance.
That was me who derped out while writing that. :P Don't hate on Michael.
Iron January 10, 2016 at 3:01 AM UTC
Won't people bend your words even if you're in Teamspeak?
At least on the forums you won't have to repeat yourself.
Also, why do you not want people to bend your words?
If people are confused then helping them understand will benefit everyone.
anyways op; I mean now i cant ask for the non existant evidence of my demotion from senior!!!!! I think this post needs to be rewritten because 4 seniors have said different things from the op
Newcleus January 10, 2016 at 4:01 AM UTC
Won't people bend your words even if you're in Teamspeak?
At least on the forums you won't have to repeat yourself.
Also, why do you not want people to bend your words?
If people are confused then helping them understand will benefit everyone.
It's also easier to clarify using voice to voice, and it's easier to discuss using TeamSpeak.
ImNotYourTiger January 10, 2016 at 4:01 AM UTC
2 admins alone decided this, apparently.
#Viceforadmin
Arigenn January 10, 2016 at 4:01 AM UTC
On behalf of the administrative team, I myself am going to say this decision was rather inconsistent, and wasn't conducted particularly well. It was not put through a proper voting process, and moderators were only briefly introduced to this particular new policy.
As for now, I'm going to refrain from putting this policy into place, until a time that it can properly be discussed and conducted more effectively.
gobernment January 10, 2016 at 4:01 AM UTC
On behalf of the administrative team, I myself am going to say this decision was rather inconsistent, and wasn't conducted particularly well. It was not put through a proper voting process, and moderators were only briefly introduced to this particular new policy.
As for now, I'm going to refrain from putting this policy into place, until a time that it can properly be discussed and conducted more effectively.
DaFrozenBlaze January 10, 2016 at 4:01 AM UTC
SnowSX3 January 10, 2016 at 5:01 AM UTC
Well...this was an interesting clusterfuck..Zintenka January 10, 2016 at 5:01 AM UTC
...Sevoo January 10, 2016 at 5:01 AM UTC
On behalf of the administrative team, I myself am going to say this decision was rather inconsistent, and wasn't conducted particularly well. It was not put through a proper voting process, and moderators were only briefly introduced to this particular new policy.
As for now, I'm going to refrain from putting this policy into place, until a time that it can properly be discussed and conducted more effectively.
Subscriptor January 10, 2016 at 5:01 AM UTC
If I were to be demoted, I would want to see the evidence. As stated in the other posts, if you have legitimate evidence you shouldn't have problems with demotions. I don't like this, and I think it can lead to bias.Edit: Thanks Ethan <3