Avicus "doesn't make a profit"
by
Shadowbladz
June 10, 2014 at 10:06 PM UTC
This is a PSA to those who think Avicus will be safe from the EULA because it "doesn't make a profit"
Technically, by business terms they ARE making a profit. The business is selling in game commands and making a profit on it. Sure, the money earned is spent right back into the server itself. But by going by business terms (these are the terms the EULA will be based off) the server IS making a profit.
How the server decides to spend it is their business, but it's still a profit. There's a difference between business profit, and personal profit. This EULA applies to both.
profit means precisely: "a financial gain, especially the difference between the amount earned and the amount spent in buying, operating, or producing something." So they could make a loss of $200 a month from costs (from VPS & DNS) and then if they get $200 from "donators" then they wouldn't have made a profit? I'm not really sure.
profit means precisely: "a financial gain, especially the difference between the amount earned and the amount spent in buying, operating, or producing something." So they could make a loss of $200 a month from costs (from VPS & DNS) and then if they get $200 from "donators" then they wouldn't have made a profit? I'm not really sure.
Avi has said that they do make money, they just spend it on improving the server.
They sell a "rank". Which is pretty much what Mojang is against. I don't honestly think they care about what the rank contains
I don't know the whole story but I thought it was just in-game items not perks and such. Like selling a diamond in-game for $10 wouldn't be allowed. I don't see the reason for a rank to be taking away because we donated and we didn't purchase it.
I don't know the whole story but I thought it was just in-game items not perks and such. Like selling a diamond in-game for $10 wouldn't be allowed. I don't see the reason for a rank to be taking away because we donated and we didn't purchase it.
Actually you didn't donate. A donation is a freely given amount of money for no perks. You bought a shop package.
Was this made of me, of my topic yesterday about the EULA and Profit and stuff because I feel bad for no reason :(
I noticed a lot of people (including a Director) thought they'd be safe because of the fact they "don't make a profit" on your topic. So I decided to make this! :P
Avi has said that they do make money, they just spend it on improving the server.
Yes, since they spent it on the server, Ivy isn't gaining anything. He spends it on the server to make us happy; not him. To gain something in my mind is to get something and get something and use it for yourself to receive pleasure. Ivy is not gaining anything because he's not using any of the money he gets to have fun, get food, et cetera, he's using it to give it to us, so we can have fun; not him. For example, say you're selling cookies for $1 each. Someone buys 10 cookies and with that $10 you just made, you spend it on ingredients to make more cookies. You're not making a gain because you have no money left over to do whatever you want with and you had no pleasure spending the money. Tomorrow, you sell 10 more cookies and get $10. You then decide since you don't need that money to buy more dough, you decide to go to an arcade and spend it on buying games. This is a gain because you didn't use the money on anything to prolong business-- you spent it on something that doesn't have anything to do with the business you're commencing. I totally understand where you're coming from, but I believe Ivy is not making a profit.
@Craft ikr @goldie The issue isn't really about receiving profit either, even if the server loses money. Mojang(Or maybe just this staff member) doesn't want selling, so a staff member stated that people who donated should blend in with the common crowd. This means, no prefixes, no perks, no suffixes, or any of that in game. D:
AviGill had it wrong if he stated that. Avicus, like any large network does make a profit. Take a look at the shop FAQ for more information regarding where any money to Avicus goes. Any money that we receive that in the end is put towards giveaways, community events or developers is considered profit as it is not directly helping Avicus to keep running.
Regardless, it's wise to drop all the concern over the EULA as Mojang has stated repeatedly that they plan not to change their ways. If they do, then Avicus will continue on as it is as they have stated that they only wish to target servers that have pay to win options. The benefits we provide our primarily cosmetic (trails, pets) or for convenience (joining full teams, faster XP rate, more kits). Mojang does not want to have servers that essentially force you to pay the owner in order to have any chance at competing properly. I hope that it's clear that Avicus' ranks are completely optional and give little to no advantage in game. The one area where we would fail at this would be the extra kits available to upgraded users.
AviGill had it wrong if he stated that. Avicus, like any large network does make a profit. Take a look at the shop FAQ for more information regarding where any money to Avicus goes. Any money that we receive that in the end is put towards giveaways, community events or developers is considered profit as it is not directly helping Avicus to keep running.
Regardless, it's wise to drop all the concern over the EULA as Mojang has stated repeatedly that they plan not to change their ways. If they do, then Avicus will continue on as it is as they have stated that they only wish to target servers that have pay to win options. The benefits we provide our primarily cosmetic (trails, pets) or for convenience (joining full teams, faster XP rate, more kits). Mojang does not want to have servers that essentially force you to pay the owner in order to have any chance at competing properly. I hope that it's clear that Avicus' ranks are completely optional and give little to no advantage in game. The one area where we would fail at this would be the extra kits available to upgraded users.
Well, going by accounting it doesn't matter if the money goes back into the server, it's still a profit. Even if you get $100 a month, and put $120 back into the server. Technically you made a profit of $100 because that was the gains of the busines minus the expenses.
Yes I'm aware, this was just to notify the people that thought "since Avicus doesn't make a personal profit, we're safe!".
AviGill had it wrong if he stated that. Avicus, like any large network does make a profit. Take a look at the shop FAQ for more information regarding where any money to Avicus goes. Any money that we receive that in the end is put towards giveaways, community events or developers is considered profit as it is not directly helping Avicus to keep running.
Regardless, it's wise to drop all the concern over the EULA as Mojang has stated repeatedly that they plan not to change their ways. If they do, then Avicus will continue on as it is as they have stated that they only wish to target servers that have pay to win options. The benefits we provide our primarily cosmetic (trails, pets) or for convenience (joining full teams, faster XP rate, more kits). Mojang does not want to have servers that essentially force you to pay the owner in order to have any chance at competing properly. I hope that it's clear that Avicus' ranks are completely optional and give little to no advantage in game. The one area where we would fail at this would be the extra kits available to upgraded users.
Well, going by accounting it doesn't matter if the money goes back into the server, it's still a profit. Even if you get $100 a month, and put $120 back into the server. Technically you made a profit of $100 because that was the gains of the busines minus the expenses.
Yes I'm aware, this was just to notify the people that thought "since Avicus doesn't make a personal profit, we're safe!".
No, that is incorrect. Profit is the revenue minus the expenditures of a business, it's not just the revenue off of a single purchase...
AviGill had it wrong if he stated that. Avicus, like any large network does make a profit. Take a look at the shop FAQ for more information regarding where any money to Avicus goes. Any money that we receive that in the end is put towards giveaways, community events or developers is considered profit as it is not directly helping Avicus to keep running.
Regardless, it's wise to drop all the concern over the EULA as Mojang has stated repeatedly that they plan not to change their ways. If they do, then Avicus will continue on as it is as they have stated that they only wish to target servers that have pay to win options. The benefits we provide our primarily cosmetic (trails, pets) or for convenience (joining full teams, faster XP rate, more kits). Mojang does not want to have servers that essentially force you to pay the owner in order to have any chance at competing properly. I hope that it's clear that Avicus' ranks are completely optional and give little to no advantage in game. The one area where we would fail at this would be the extra kits available to upgraded users.
"The one area where we would fail at this would be the extra kits available to upgraded users."
The one area where we would fail at this would be the extra-powerful kits available to upgraded users.
In accounting your profit and loss account is your Sales -Purchases -Cost of sales = Net profit
Sooo you're telling me that all companies that sell digital items/games and companies in the service sector have no expenses because they don't sell tangible items? You aren't taking into account the cost to run the business (part of the cost of sales I suppose). For example, Mojang has employees that maintain Minecraft and also pay for servers to keep the game going. They charge money to purchase the game. Their profit is the money made from selling the game minus the cost to run the servers and pay their employees.
Edit: I'll just add a definition: "In accounting, profit is the difference between the purchase and the component costs of delivered goods and/or services and any operating or other expenses."
Sooo you're telling me that all companies that sell digital items/games and companies in the service sector have no expenses because they don't sell tangible items? You aren't taking into account the cost to run the business (part of the cost of sales I suppose). For example, Mojang has employees that maintain Minecraft and also pay for servers to keep the game going. They charge money to purchase the game. Their profit is the money made from selling the game minus the cost to run the servers and pay their employees.
Edit: I'll just add a definition: "In accounting, profit is the difference between the purchase and the component costs of delivered goods and/or services and any operating or other expenses."
No no no. Cost of sales is basically paypal charges for you I guess. Profit is just what I mentioned.
A term I can't remember is net profit plus gains (rent on buildings that kinda thing), and then minus losses (which would be wages, advertising, paying rent etc.) The pure profit would just be the amount of money they make selling the game, minus the amount of money it costs them to DIRECTLY sell it. So transport if you're selling a physical item.
Profit is often mistaken as term I can't remember.
EDIT: I was mistaking Net profit for Gross I just realised, but my points are still valid. The pure profit isn't affected by how much it costs to run the business. Even if you make $100, spend $50 on running the server and spend $70 to improve the server. Your net profit is still $50 and your gross profit is $100
AviGill had it wrong if he stated that. Avicus, like any large network does make a profit. Take a look at the shop FAQ for more information regarding where any money to Avicus goes. Any money that we receive that in the end is put towards giveaways, community events or developers is considered profit as it is not directly helping Avicus to keep running.
Regardless, it's wise to drop all the concern over the EULA as Mojang has stated repeatedly that they plan not to change their ways. If they do, then Avicus will continue on as it is as they have stated that they only wish to target servers that have pay to win options. The benefits we provide our primarily cosmetic (trails, pets) or for convenience (joining full teams, faster XP rate, more kits). Mojang does not want to have servers that essentially force you to pay the owner in order to have any chance at competing properly. I hope that it's clear that Avicus' ranks are completely optional and give little to no advantage in game. The one area where we would fail at this would be the extra kits available to upgraded users.
No no no. Cost of sales is basically paypal charges for you I guess. Profit is just what I mentioned.
A term I can't remember is net profit plus gains (rent on buildings that kinda thing), and then minus losses (which would be wages, advertising, paying rent etc.) The pure profit would just be the amount of money they make selling the game, minus the amount of money it costs them to DIRECTLY sell it. So transport if you're selling a physical item.
Profit is often mistaken as term I can't remember.
EDIT: I was mistaking Net profit for Gross I just realised, but my points are still valid. The pure profit isn't affected by how much it costs to run the business. Even if you make $100, spend $50 on running the server and spend $70 to improve the server. Your net profit is still $50 and your gross profit is $100
<rant><semiasshole>
I have been trying not to go on a rant about this for so long, because it sickens me that you are being this stubborn and so dead wrong. You clearly don't know what you are talking about, and yet you persist, even acting as though you have proof and a background in the area "In accounting blah blah blarg"NO NO NO!Profit is the amount of money you have gained once the process is over, which is:
1. ALL Preliminary Expenses 2. Product is sold 3. ALL Expenses for afterwards
If you are running a successful business, you hope to make profit, so that you don't end up with exactly what you started with, because then you can't get things for yourself, like food and shelter, so that is why in actual corporations they want to make profit. It is the money that the owner can walk away with in his pocket, the amount gained after ALL EXPENSES. Avicus makes no profit, because funky doesn't use the money, he puts it into the server, meaning it is simply capable of sustainable development, it is self sufficient, not producing anything, but not losing anything either. Now stop being stupid, grow up, and learn something. Use google. Profit is a thing you can google you know. You have tons of resources right at your fingertips so why do you so blatantly refuse to use them? You don't know about this, and avicus can not be touched, so please, please research next time before you make yourself look like a stubborn idiot.
I have been trying not to go on a rant about this for so long, because it sickens me that you are being this stubborn and so dead wrong. You clearly don't know what you are talking about, and yet you persist, even acting as though you have proof and a background in the area "In accounting blah blah blarg"NO NO NO!Profit is the amount of money you have gained once the process is over, which is:
1. ALL Preliminary Expenses 2. Product is sold 3. ALL Expenses for afterwards
If you are running a successful business, you hope to make profit, so that you don't end up with exactly what you started with, because then you can't get things for yourself, like food and shelter, so that is why in actual corporations they want to make profit. It is the money that the owner can walk away with in his pocket, the amount gained after ALL EXPENSES. Avicus makes no profit, because funky doesn't use the money, he puts it into the server, meaning it is simply capable of sustainable development, it is self sufficient, not producing anything, but not losing anything either. Now stop being stupid, grow up, and learn something. Use google. Profit is a thing you can google you know. You have tons of resources right at your fingertips so why do you so blatantly refuse to use them? You don't know about this, and avicus can not be touched, so please, please research next time before you make yourself look like a stubborn idiot.
I have been trying not to go on a rant about this for so long, because it sickens me that you are being this stubborn and so dead wrong. You clearly don't know what you are talking about, and yet you persist, even acting as though you have proof and a background in the area "In accounting blah blah blarg"NO NO NO!Profit is the amount of money you have gained once the process is over, which is:
1. ALL Preliminary Expenses 2. Product is sold 3. ALL Expenses for afterwards
If you are running a successful business, you hope to make profit, so that you don't end up with exactly what you started with, because then you can't get things for yourself, like food and shelter, so that is why in actual corporations they want to make profit. It is the money that the owner can walk away with in his pocket, the amount gained after ALL EXPENSES. Avicus makes no profit, because funky doesn't use the money, he puts it into the server, meaning it is simply capable of sustainable development, it is self sufficient, not producing anything, but not losing anything either. Now stop being stupid, grow up, and learn something. Use google. Profit is a thing you can google you know. You have tons of resources right at your fingertips so why do you so blatantly refuse to use them? You don't know about this, and avicus can not be touched, so please, please research next time before you make yourself look like a stubborn idiot.
The End </rant></semiasshole>
Uh. You do realise that an expense is a cost of the business? A cost of running the business. Lets say Funky spent $50 on running the server. Earned $100 and then put another $10 into running it at the end of the month. It wouldn't add any more cost for that month. The cost of running the server would simply be $60 next month. Again, you're mixing up personal profit with business. A profit is not walking away with cash in hand. It's simply selling more than your expenses.
I "blatantly" refuse to use google for accounting for how plain wrong it is. Any accountant will tell you that for the most part the internet's information is the newest ones. The type of accounting changes they made last week. Which frankly, won't be used until this generation of accountants are over. I've been studying business for 3 years and I'm doing a 2 year course in accounting next year.
"ALL expenses" are not counted in the profit and loss account, therefore not affecting the account. Depreciation is a loss in money, which is by definition an expense. But we don't count it towards profit, know why? It isn't to do with the direct sale of a product. Therefore, not affecting the profit.
Uh. You do realise that an expense is a cost of the business? A cost of running the business. Lets say Funky spent $50 on running the server. Earned $100 and then put another $10 into running it at the end of the month. It wouldn't add any more cost for that month. The cost of running the server would simply be $60 next month. Again, you're mixing up personal profit with business. A profit is not walking away with cash in hand. It's simply selling more than your expenses.
I "blatantly" refuse to use google for accounting for how plain wrong it is. Any accountant will tell you that for the most part the internet's information is the newest ones. The type of accounting changes they made last week. Which frankly, won't be used until this generation of accountants are over. I've been studying business for 3 years and I'm doing a 2 year course in accounting next year.
"ALL expenses" are not counted in the profit and loss account, therefore not affecting the account. Depreciation is a loss in money, which is by definition an expense. But we don't count it towards profit, know why? It isn't to do with the direct sale of a product. Therefore, not affecting the profit.
When i say funky walking away with cash i mean the server. I was just using him because hes the owns the server. You are still flat wrong. I dont think you can count studying business for several years if you keep failing because you refuse to grasp simple concepts. The server only puts all of its money into operating the server. Any extra money that we made more than we spent on just having the host is put into the server right away in some other form, thus enhancing the service, thus pertaining to the product. What minecraft eula is saying is that we can not have server owners doing this for a job, for any sort of excess money, outside purposes, etc.
Here is an official definition, previously stated, but again here to prove my point: "a financial gain, especially the difference between the amount earned and the amount spent in buying, operating, or producing something."
1. Buying: the server buys server hosting, this is subtracted from profit
2. Operation: most servers have to pay some extra for upkeep. One massive thing here as well is that we pay $150 a month (i think thats the number, maybe its per week?) for super effective DDoS protection to keep the our "product" operational
3.Producing: now the product the server is actually giving out for money here is the plugins, and because we put a ton if time and possibly some expenses into our coding that goes in there as well. But also keep in mind that the whole server is also a product so expenses that are peft out elsewhere can go here. All of them.
bam. Done. Now please go spread your religion of wrongness elsewhere
When i say funky walking away with cash i mean the server. I was just using him because hes the owns the server. You are still flat wrong. I dont think you can count studying business for several years if you keep failing because you refuse to grasp simple concepts. The server only puts all of its money into operating the server. Any extra money that we made more than we spent on just having the host is put into the server right away in some other form, thus enhancing the service, thus pertaining to the product. What minecraft eula is saying is that we can not have server owners doing this for a job, for any sort of excess money, outside purposes, etc.
Here is an official definition, previously stated, but again here to prove my point: "a financial gain, especially the difference between the amount earned and the amount spent in buying, operating, or producing something."
1. Buying: the server buys server hosting, this is subtracted from profit
2. Operation: most servers have to pay some extra for upkeep. One massive thing here as well is that we pay $150 a month (i think thats the number, maybe its per week?) for super effective DDoS protection to keep the our "product" operational
3.Producing: now the product the server is actually giving out for money here is the plugins, and because we put a ton if time and possibly some expenses into our coding that goes in there as well. But also keep in mind that the whole server is also a product so expenses that are peft out elsewhere can go here. All of them.
bam. Done. Now please go spread your religion of wrongness elsewhere
You're still not understanding. So I'll put this as simply as possible.
The gross profit the is the sales. The net profit is the sales minus the cost of running the business. Then he has his profit.
Spending the money on server enhancemnts and other things to help benefit the server are then put into the analysed cash book. The profit is not affected by how you spend it.
Basically imagine let's say, coca cola. They sell 10 million euro worth of bottles. It cost 1 million for the bottles, 1 million to run the factories, 1 million for advertising and 2 million for wages. They make a 5 million euro profit on sales.. They then spend 3 million of that on a new factory. Their profit was 5 million for the month. They just spent some of the profit in a way.
Gross profit is the difference between sales and the price of manufacture. this does not affect us. Net Profit is similar to thegross profit, but also includes things such as staff salaries, rent etc. Basically costs outside of manufacture. This does affect us. I do year 9 commerce.
Gross profit is the difference between sales and the price of manufacture. this does not affect us. Net Profit is similar to thegross profit, but also includes things such as staff salaries, rent etc. Basically costs outside of manufacture. This does affect us. I do year 9 commerce.
Have you done like actual business accounts? The Profit and Loss account? Just curious
What volt says. EULA is bull. It WILL ruin mine craft, lets wait to see Hypixel, Hive Mineplex and Avicus, all the big servers will shut down with it. They won't have money to support themselves. The post about EULA and servers was posted 7 months ago, anything happened? No. I don't think it will be a problem for a LONG WHILE, if ever. But if they persist to crack down on servers about it, I might swell quit MC. I'll do anything it takes to go against this rule, it is complete crap.
Every large server makes a profit. If they made a loss it would decline. If they break even all the time they wouldn't expand. For the server to expand and add things it has to make a profit.
I noticed that IvyCode cleared it up. Just pointing it out to those who don't understand which servers make a profit.
What volt says. EULA is bull. It WILL ruin mine craft, lets wait to see Hypixel, Hive Mineplex and Avicus, all the big servers will shut down with it. They won't have money to support themselves. The post about EULA and servers was posted 7 months ago, anything happened? No. I don't think it will be a problem for a LONG WHILE, if ever. But if they persist to crack down on servers about it, I might swell quit MC. I'll do anything it takes to go against this rule, it is complete crap.
The panic was more that Mojang was talking about cracking down on the servers about it
CS:GO is a really fun one, has a steep learning curve though
Yes, that is correct
also ylo Ivy did clear up that we are not making a profit, except possibly on kits... Which is something ive stood strongly against since i got here so fine i guess.
also ylo Ivy did clear up that we are not making a profit, except possibly on kits... Which is something ive stood strongly against since i got here so fine i guess.
Ivy said they're not making a personal profit, business wise of course Avicus is making a profit. The server would have shut down if it wasn't
also ylo Ivy did clear up that we are not making a profit, except possibly on kits... Which is something ive stood strongly against since i got here so fine i guess.
Ehm... "Avicus, like any large network does make a profit. " Don't where you are getting the not making a profit part.
Any money spent on behalf of a business that is going towards the business is considered an expense.
Not in the profit and loss account. Which is the account that defines profit, the "loss" in that account is expenses relating to how much it cost you to sell your service/product.
Not in the profit and loss account. Which is the account that defines profit, the "loss" in that account is expenses relating to how much it cost you to sell your service/product.
I prefer to get business advice from a CFP, thanks for your concern regarding the EULA though.
Sadly to say this rule is being enforced, although they lightened it, you still cannot sell ranks that give kits, or anything that effects the gameplay. You can only sell cosmetic/non gameplay changing items or features. I know this for sure, because I also own a small network, and we were contacted by Mojang today about it, and asked about selling ranks and such.
Although i do agree with mojang about all this pay to win and kits for donators it will be a kick in the face to the servers that need the money
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